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HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R (Read 2697 times)
trashfire
Ex Member



HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
03/14/06 at 19:00:03
 
OK.  My neighbor had his theatre done professionally, I did mine all by myself.  He dropped like $2k on a velodyne 12" sub and I spent $40 on MDF & 100 on kicker comp drivers for mine.  I built a HWK15 and run it with a Crest VS650 bridged to 4 ohm which sould run it at around 600W or so.  Being Crest, that's actually 600W and not 600 fantasy watts.  So why then would a single 12 with "1000W" wipe the floor with a pair of Kicker 15's @ 600W in a HWK box?  

I gotta tear it down and make sure I didn't wire them wrong.  I wired them out of phase since they're clamshelled.  I'm pretty anal about that stuff but I may have overlooked something.  I got good output but then next to that velodyne, I had to tuck my tail.  (he brought over the velodyne so same room, same source, etc)  The HWK will shake the chairs and stuff but that little velodyne just blew my mind.

What should I expect from this box? Should it not beat the spit out of any sub that crosses it?  I read about these posts of incredible results, are people's standards that low or are mine too high?  I'm no master craftsman but my box is solid, tight & sealed up.  I can confirm no air leaks, built to specs, etc.  Drivers are mounted facing into the sealed chamber with baskets into each ported chamber.

Any thoughts?  I'm hoping I just dorked up the wiring.   Cry  I've got a 1500W amp in another system that i may hook up just to be sure i'm not wanting in the wattage department once I verify the wiring.

Thanks all

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gexter
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #1 - 03/14/06 at 20:35:53
 
the velodyne amp is a differant critter just by itself.
the driver amp and enclosure are designed to be perfect with each other.

If your amp had more than just sheer wattage and you found a pair of drivers that were perfectly matched to the tweaked enclosure IMHO it would be the other way around.

once in awhile you find a perfect match for steves designs and things are good.

My opinion only
that and I am rather fond of velodynes and SV subwoofers, but rather make em myself.
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #2 - 03/14/06 at 22:16:55
 
Expecting a sub made from plans non specific to the drivers used to beat a sub designed around the driver and amp is a little much, but...

Its not impossible. Where is your HWK lacking? is it in low end? the higher frequencies? or total output?
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #3 - 03/15/06 at 01:35:13
 
how about magnets mounted in the center chamber try in and out of phase.

After reading through this forum after awhile the strangest things can work.. of course there is always a science behind it I just have no idea what it is..

I guess you sealed it all up because you were happy at the time Smiley I never seal anything, that way I can always take it apart.  Well mostly I do. After you double check everything let us know what you find.

your still a whole of lot cheaper so you still win

Grin
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HT-EXT
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #4 - 03/15/06 at 12:47:51
 
The HWK15 is the best bang for the buck. I'm sure the design of the high dollar subs are on the money and everything matchs(speaker specs, box size, amp, etc.). My goal with the HWK15 was to build it as close as possible to Steve's specs with his opinion of the best woofer for a turn-key design(DAYTON Series II). As far as I'm concerned the only sub that will challenge the HWK15 is the WO36. I do not have an Imperial but I'm sure it's devastating from all the talk on the forum. I would put the baskets/magnets in the sealed chamber with the woofer cone facing the ports with one hooked out of phase for the HWK. Try both the HWK and the Velodyne in the same room with the same scene or music and check the overall output of both with a SPL meter. After that figure which one sounds better or covers the bass freqs. better but of course you will haft to adjust both for best output. Don't get me wrong I have a RCA 12" powered sub and it sounds great and loads the room with good clean bass. Never give up and keep experimenting with different speakers if you can afford it. Hope this helps.   HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 03/15/06 at 12:50:58 by Joe_Eaton »  
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trashfire
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #5 - 03/15/06 at 17:23:11
 
I didn't have a lot of time last night to look around but I did verify that the subs are wired out of phase.  Interesting note, I hooked up a Marantz monobloc I had laying around (~180W) and it sounded just as good as the other amp.  I don't think it's a wattage issue.  

As far as what's lacking, I ran some freq sweeps through it and it's really lacking in the 70hz-85hz range and below 40hz. (Xover is a paradigm X30 @ ~90hz.)  Is there something I can do with the ports to flatten it out a little?  I understand this enclosure is a bandpass design and probably doing exactly what it was designed for...  I also discovered the resonant frequency of most of the windows upstairs..  (~43Hz)

I moved it around some more and found a little closer to the walls helped but still lacking in my opinion.  

I may try a set of Daytons.  I do recall reading somewhere that kicker competition series subs weren't optimized for bandpass enclosures.  I guess this is supposed to be the fun part...  I did seal it up thinking all was well but nothing the saw won't fix.

Anyone built an Imperial SO yet?  :)  I'm not going to be happy until the wife is mad.
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #6 - 03/15/06 at 20:26:01
 
Figured power was not the problem, thats great news

If you want to make your wife mad, go for for two full size Imperials subs with Driver/ Driver's on the outside and build them out of MDF and leave them it raw.
Don't forget to leave a little rust on the basket and bang up the dynamat on the basket so its partly falling off.
The way they look and the space they take up can get me a world of trouble around here.
She does not have to get around listening to them to create an environment where my life is in danger

HT-EXT- if you can admit to RCA equipment and or subs then I don't feel so bad now..
And I can be a man and admit it too!   Smiley



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HT-EXT
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #7 - 03/16/06 at 13:24:43
 
Come on Gex admit you like some of the cheap stuff and besides where are you going to get a 12" sub with 200w amp for $80. I started out with all RCA and a receiver that would not even decode DTS. Since then I have step up but still like the good old stuff to tinker with. Decware and the forums have enlighten me as far as what real audio is suppost to sound like I just can't bring myself to believe that a $1000 or even a $2000 sub can be worth the investment. Yes I had two 10" powered RCA subs and still have the 12" RCA. I sold the 10"s to finance other projects and all these subs still work almost 10 years later. Everyone has an opinion and I try to keep mine to myself but if something works I will use it no matter the name.  HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 03/16/06 at 15:03:07 by Joe_Eaton »  
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #8 - 03/16/06 at 17:00:58
 
Curses found out again  >:(

your right!
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Valiant_ap6
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Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #9 - 03/21/06 at 14:09:23
 
I too like cheap - but good. Put a cheap driver in a good box with reasonable source and amp, and you can get good results. I expect putting a high end driver in a poorly built and designed box would equal - blah.

I guess it comes down to the money - hopefully it keeps us honest. And if several thousand dollars worth of equipment beats your HW or my Imperials (approx total cost Oz = $750, about $500 US), then hats off to the designer and builder of the good stuff, they must know their trade.

I think I'm the one having the most fun though.

Cheers

Gary.  :)
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: HWK15 vs Velodyne SPL 1200R
Reply #10 - 03/21/06 at 16:06:48
 
Alright, I would turn your subs around so that the top sub's magnet is in the middle chamber, and so the bottom sub's magnet is in the lowest chamber.  Wired with drivers in phase this should give you the lowest tuning in the top chamber and your highest tuning in the bottom chamber.

See if that helps.  

If it helps, but still doesn;t go low enough, I would try adding stuffing to the top chamber in incrememnts. That should help lower tuning even more.

Also, just a quick question, are you using ports in the bottome chamber?  I saw someone building a HWK with ports where the design calls for a hole.  (A 3/4 inch long port.)

Good luck!
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