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WO with separate horn flares (Read 1595 times)
bassboy
Ex Member



WO with separate horn flares
03/13/06 at 07:00:09
 
I was thinking about making a WO coffee table in a more rectangular shape.  It wouldn't look much like the standard but would not be much different.

I was thinking about placing the drivers in the middle and having the horn flares starting where the v divider usually is, each flare extending towards their back corner and then up the side to exit at the front.  Each driver would get their own horn, doubling the horn mouth.

It would only make the table a couple of cubic feet larger but it's not that big anyway.

Does anyone think there might be an noticable advantage to having two separate horn flares?

Another way to think of it would be two properly constructed half WO's vs a regular WO.  Who wins?
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richard03
Ex Member



Re: WO with separate horn flares
Reply #1 - 03/13/06 at 13:35:53
 
interesting idea, thought about it myself.
i get the impression the throat of the horn moves depending on the  frequency the sub is producing, as far as i can tell this may shift as far as the last horn segment, i only say this as ive been finding the wo a bitch to time align correctly with other horn loaded pa speakers.
technically a delay of 1.57m would bring the rest of the pa inline but it doesnt seem to be the case (if anyone has input to this im interested to hear it)

aanyways due to the possibility that the wo gets such increased gain at low frequencies from both drivers powering one throat at occuring at some point after the 2nd bend /v divider. you may lose out. however as you rightly said it would have a bigger horn mouth so maybe that would compensate, or maybe the throat doesnt move as much as i think it does , if thats the case then your design should work well.

if moving and stacking the box isnt really a consideration id suggest building it as you suggest , one side of a wo mirrored, id say the dividing wall between the 2 sides could be left out aswell,did a picture in paint to illustrate this but it wont upload.
also consider extending the horn flare 6-10" to fully couple both horn mouths into one , could well end up being a good box

due to not being able to accurately model this box i reccomend building a prototype out of mdf as its dead cheap and can always be painted e.t.c if you decide to keep it.

might have to try and work out a way to buld a wo like this but with decent stacking/packing dimensions, could be good.

incidentally had 2 12" loaded (pa drivers) wo's out at the weekend, with 1200 w@ 4r per box, room was about 6x6M and they nailed it, these boxes are cool
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Hotsauce
Ex Member



Re: WO with separate horn flares
Reply #2 - 03/13/06 at 22:29:48
 
I remember someone posting that they had to set the delay to appx 5M before it sounded right.  

This would indicate that the throat is acting a lot longer than it actually measures.

John C.

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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: WO with separate horn flares
Reply #3 - 03/13/06 at 23:22:30
 
One other thing to account for is the fact that the drivers energy and the mouth of the box are about 180 degrees out of phase, (The box makes a u-turn inside), which at 34Hz half wavelength is about 5 meters. Add to that any group delay encountered from the 4th order loading scheme and it's not surprising that a large delay would be necessary.

I find that starting with the drivers 180 degrees out of phase, electrically, with the rest of the system helps a lot. It sounds stupid, redundant, and obvious, but phasing is a relative thing. Grin
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bassboy
Ex Member



Re: WO with separate horn flares
Reply #4 - 03/14/06 at 01:23:56
 
Incidentally the phasing/time delay issue is one of the reasons I like the coffee table idea.  Having the sub right in front of you allows more distance to the main speakers, certainly not 5m, but the sub is still closer than the highs.  But to tell the truth, the time delay of the WO has never bothered me much, even with the sub farther away than the fronts, as in car audio.

Richard, your post, if I understand correctly is guessing that coupling the two channels is increasing the sensitivity, or overall gain.  This may well be the case, but I don't think so.  My buddy made a half WO with the full size mouth (triangle shape) and it is very loud and very low.  Unfortunately I've never played with it myself at length and have only heard it with unfamiliar music, and in a different vehicle than my WO, but for any given amount of power I don't think his performed any worse than mine.

Even if you are right and the sensitivity is negatively affected, to a certain point I don't care.  When I was using my WO as a coffee table I never turned it up very loud because the thing is only a foot away.  I am much more concerned about low frequency extention.

According to horn theory, doubling the mouth size, or having 2 mouths in close proximity will increase lfe by significant amounts, I'm not certain that would be the case with horn flares as short as the WO's.

In my wildly optomistic imagination, I can see the double mouth allowing up to half octive extention on the low end.  My practical side says it would perform exactly the same as original.

Opinions, thoughts, ideas?
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