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Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH (Read 12791 times)
biju
Ex Member



Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
02/18/06 at 17:14:34
 
Nooooob here.

Just stumbled upon this site as I'm doing research for my system redesign in my Isuzu VehiCROSS.

After considering several types of enclosures, this one intrigued me the most.  I'm planning on using two DB's, running MTX's T8510-44 model subs, powered by an oldschool PPI a1200.

I'm a big fan of SQ, and even a bigger fan of low/tight/clean bass - however, granted I'm using 10's, I know I won't get the same low output as, say, 15's...  With that said, has anybody who's build the DB attempted to increase the volume of the sealed chamber by lengthening the enclosure (say, maybe a few inches beyond what the plans call for) in an attempt to get the subs to hit a tad lower?  I realize this will be a trade off of power, so I'm not too worried about that...  I'm just curious as to what increasing the sealed chamber would do the end result?  Would it cancel out or defeat all the technology/sizing/calculations that went into making the DB a great design?

Thanks all.

-biju.
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« Last Edit: 04/23/06 at 01:51:26 by biju »  
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Adrian D.
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #1 - 02/19/06 at 07:23:34
 
not sure about increasing the sealed chamber. but you can try plyfill to make it appear larger
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #2 - 02/20/06 at 04:53:18
 
If you have built the original to plans, and moving the insert all the way up to the near the top of the port makes it sound better and better, I would go for adding stuffing, if that makes it sound even better, you could easily make the box larger.

I would test carefully, perhaps go in steps:
Move insert all the way up.
add stuffing
sounds good increase box length 20-30%
add more stuffing to new box
sounds good increase chamber size again.


I don't know of many tens that require a larger box than that of the deathbox can offer.
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J_Rock
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #3 - 02/20/06 at 04:53:57
 
Basically, if you think it will help, go for it.  Testing is what makes these things happen in the first place.
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60ndown
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #4 - 02/23/06 at 06:34:46
 
[quote author=biju  link=1140286475/0#0 date=1140282874]Nooooob here.

Just stumbled upon this site as I'm doing research for my system redesign in my Isuzu VehiCROSS.

After considering several types of enclosures, this one intrigued me the most.  I'm planning on using two DB's, running MTX's T8510-44 model subs, powered by an oldschool PPI a1200.

I'm a big fan of SQ, and even a bigger fan of low/tight/clean bass - however, granted I'm using 10's, I know I won't get the same low output as, say, 15's...  With that said, has anybody who's build the DB attempted to increase the volume of the sealed chamber by lengthening the enclosure (say, maybe a few inches beyond what the plans call for) in an attempt to get the subs to hit a tad lower?  I realize this will be a trade off of power, so I'm not too worried about that...  I'm just curious as to what increasing the sealed chamber would do the end result?  Would it cancel out or defeat all the technology/sizing/calculations that went into making the DB a great design?

Thanks all.

-biju.
[/quote]

i have done exactly that with a db trying to get the lowest of the low end, you could do it and if you dont like it its easy to cut the box down to normal size? i couldnt tell the difference in sound between the origional and the slightly longer version.
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #5 - 03/08/06 at 16:18:29
 
Well,

I've got one built. Lengthy process the first time, figuring out the assembly and making sure the wood cuts are precise!  Now I just need the other one built.  

I did make the sealed chamber larger, but only by one inch.  Not that big of a deal I suppose.  We'll see how it sounds (haven't hooked it up yet, as I'm building the amprack, etc., at the same time...)

I was always baffled by a sentence in the box instructions regarding the half moon:

"(Don't forget to add 3/4" when finding the center)"

LOL - I had to learn the hard way what that meant!!!  ::)

I'll post more when finished.

-biju.
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #6 - 03/21/06 at 01:23:23
 
Whew...  

The second box is built and the anticipation to hear them perform is growing:



Granted I haven't powered them up yet, I'm pretty happy thus far.  Both turned out great from a build perspective and appear to be extremely sturdy.  I'm glad I added the extra inch in length as these 10's do displace a good amount of volume.  I think I touched every power tool in my arsenal building them: table saw, jig, plunge router, belt sander, drill, etc., etc...  Felt great!

Now I focus my attention on the amp rack build.

I'll post more as I progress...

-biju.



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Adrian D.
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #7 - 03/21/06 at 07:28:38
 
it looks like a great build...
don't forget to round the edges on the half-moon...3/8" radius
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #8 - 03/21/06 at 12:43:31
 
Thanks, Adrian...  

It's hard to tell, but the half-moon was rounded off with a router using a 1/4 bit.  That's all I had.  I'll probably do some more hand sanding before all's finished...

By the way, I did take your advice (as well as others) and purchased some acousta-stuf from partsexpress...  That should arrive this week. Hopefully that will assist...

Question though...  I don't find too many pictures on this forum that I could refer to, and was wondering what people use (other than plain 'speaker carpet'  :() to finish their boxes? So far the only option that seems remotely appealing to me is some sort of laminate...  Any suggestions?

Thanks again!

-biju.
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rock4016
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #9 - 03/21/06 at 16:01:15
 
I sprayed mine with the dark grey/black flexstone paint, makes it look like dark granite... I'll see if I can find pics.

You could also try mounting the sub reversed with the magnet in the ported chamber so see if it helps with the lows.
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #10 - 03/21/06 at 16:01:23
 
Did you see my post?  Its here:

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Deathbox;action=display;num=1...

And it shows how I covered the box in leather with some aluminum to cover the edges.  It looks about ten times better in person.

I have my WO covered in leather also, except it has studs holding the leather.  

Kind of S&M box builder now that I look back. LOL
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DirtDawg
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #11 - 03/21/06 at 16:36:29
 
J_ROCK,

That's really cool. Somehow I missed it, before. Nice work!
You should take a pic of the S&M/Goth box and drop it in the same thread. Grin
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #12 - 03/23/06 at 14:20:26
 
Interesting work!  ;D

I like the look of the leather/vinyl. I think I'll order some and give it a try.  If I'm unable to get the vinyl to work I'll then try the laminate.

I took tomorrow (Friday) and this coming Monday off so I can dedicate 4 days to finish the install.  The suspense of how these DB's will sound is killing me...!

Cry

-biju.
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #13 - 03/26/06 at 02:07:03
 
H O L Y  S H * T ! ! !

THESE BOXES ARE INSANE.

The amp rack I'm building will incorporate the DB's and the PPI's all in one continuous unit. As a result I reached the point where I had to 'tune' the DB's before placement and finishing. Again, read my intro sentence to sum up my findings.  And that was just 'testing', not even remotely turned up... Then again, I suppose I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

These things are superb. Deep, tight, clean, rich and accurate low end all at the same time!!!  So far, I'm one extremely happy DB owner.

Pics and more to follow soon - - - - >

-biju.



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Hotsauce
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #14 - 03/26/06 at 04:18:31
 
I stopped at 1 Deathbox, its plenty.  I have it trimmed way down.  I can't imagine 2.  

John C.

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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #15 - 03/26/06 at 23:08:21
 
Hey John...  

Yeah, two might be a tad much in retrospect - but thankfully I have the ability with my Alpine headunit to control the sub level.  So I'll be able to listen to the setup with low end that compliments the front stage, as well as crankin' the subs when I feel the urge to beat up the VehiCROSS!  ;D

This post of mine has sort of evolved.  It's turned from a question of making the DB sealed chamber slightly larger, into a repository for documenting my build.  Hope nobody minds...

Here's my personal 'ground zero'.  It extends from the backyard, all the way into the garage, and eventually into the house:

 

Things at the moment are quite messy.  Although, I've got the basic components of the amp rack/sub foundation completed.  Now I just need to work on the details (finishing):



Nothing in the picture above is mounted or in final layout. There will be a 'cover' that will go over everything, giving the rack some depth. Also, I did some more research on finishes for the DB's.  I think I might try Rhino lining in lieu of paint/carpet/vinyl???  I dunno yet...  I'm going to call tomorrow and get a few quotes, etc.

-biju.
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« Last Edit: 03/26/06 at 23:18:59 by biju »  
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #16 - 03/27/06 at 03:16:29
 
so does everything get mounted to that large base?

I can see something like that then sliding out the back of the vehicle on a large track.
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Hotsauce
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #17 - 03/27/06 at 04:18:42
 
You have room there to do a WO instead of 2 DB's.  

If everyone hasn't noticed, biju and I have the same truck, so I have a keen interest in his project.

Are you going to fiberglass that whole sled?

John C.



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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #18 - 03/27/06 at 14:16:47
 
J_Rock: Yeah, everything will eventually mount to the 'base'.  When all's said and done (finishing/cosmetics) the base will act like a false floor for wires and mounting to the truck. The base you see in the pics will not be visible from above (except the white bottom where the amps mount, and the finishing panel).  It's kind of hard to explain I guess... ???

Hotsauce: I considered the WO, but wasn't sold on the design.  My largest fear was the xmax of the 8510-44's would slap up against the side walls of that box. Also, I decided against fiberglass - as the spare tire insert I made for my last setup was extremely difficult for me. I'm 99.9% sure the exterior (cosmetics) will be done in vinyl with the exception of the DB's themselves.  I just called this a.m. for a quote on Rhino lining them. I got a quote of $75 a box which includes the priming and finish.  I guess it's $75 a box because they have to do it in two separate runs..  First run will hit the facing five sides, then the last run the bottom (sixth) side.

I just hope the weight of all this isn't too much for the VehiCROSS.  :(

-biju.

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J_Rock
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #19 - 03/27/06 at 16:32:46
 
you could save money by not covering the bottom, seeing as how it sits on something anyways, right?
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #20 - 03/29/06 at 23:19:14
 
They're currently in the shop getting Rhino'd.  I'll have them back on Friday.  I'll post pics then...

-biju.
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #21 - 04/01/06 at 14:01:45
 

Got the boxes back from being rhino'd.  Here's a pic:



I really am impressed with how they turned out.  I like the fact that the finish will be a tad more durable than paint or vinyl.

More to come soon...

-biju.
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« Last Edit: 04/01/06 at 17:57:36 by biju »  
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Hotsauce
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #22 - 04/01/06 at 14:07:07
 
They look great.  Too late now, but I was going to suggest going over the whole box with a qrt round bit to soften all the edges.

John C.

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slappomatt
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #23 - 04/01/06 at 14:29:35
 
That does look great! and it looks like where ever you took it did a good job.

most of those guys ( especially rhino it seems) are only used to doing truck beds and simple big things. My father sent some machinery to them for coating and they totally ruined it. he had to burn it off with a torch and it was a huge mess. in the end he went to another place that did a much better job.
but im sure that varies alot by who does it and all.

It does look good though. and alot easier than doing the carpet thing. thats always my least favorite part!  :'(
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #24 - 04/01/06 at 14:45:42
 
I think the soft edges would have been great, but like you said - too late now...  oh well.  If I end up building another one for the house I'll have to remember that!

These guys did do a great job.  They spent a day primering the wood with some sort of material that helps the Poly (Rhino) stick to wood 10x's more than if just sprayed on without it.  It just looks clean, and that's what I was going for.

-biju.

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DirtDawg
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #25 - 04/01/06 at 16:10:17
 
Very impressive, biju. I really like the look.
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #26 - 04/03/06 at 17:04:08
 
Thanks!  I too love the look.

It was a busy weekend for me, so I didn't get a chance to work on the system further.  I plan on doing so in the evenings this week.  Hopefully by Friday I'll have made more progress and will have more pics to show.

I can't wait to see what this set up will look & sound like in the end!

-biju.
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #27 - 04/11/06 at 23:52:19
 
....biju here.

I haven't forgotten to update my build, I've just run into several setbacks.  Surgery, ER room visits, etc...  It's been insane.

Here's the minimal progress I've made since last posting:







Note: still a lot of bracing to be finished, as well as more 'finishing touches'.

Oh, and did I mention that I'm a complete novice at this stuff?  I mean, I know a tad about car audio, but actually playing 'installer'?  Yikes. Well, that's where the ER visit comes into play...



LOL.  Just about took my finger off building this damn thing.  Gives new meaning to 'blood, sweat, tears..."  I'm literally 'bleeding' for that which I'm passionate about!   Tongue

I'm out for more surgery tomorrow (non-finger related) which will put me out for the rest of the week.  I should be able to pick up on the project shortly there after.

Until then!!!

-biju.

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« Last Edit: 04/12/06 at 00:02:34 by biju »  
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Adrian D.
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #28 - 04/12/06 at 14:48:00
 
horrible cut. i hope it's not as bad as it looks. what made that cut ? tabel saw ?
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #29 - 04/12/06 at 23:33:51
 
Hello, Adrian.

I'm a little groggy from this a.m.'s surgery (septorhinoplasty), but had to respond with the grizzly details of Mondays finger-hack-job.

I was carpeting and cutting the excess with a brand new blade.  Got overly confident (not paying attention).  The piece I was cutting wasn't cooperating, so I put my body weight into it not noticing that my left-hand was supporting the amp-sled - and was directly in the path of the cut.  Well, my body wieght proved to do the trick as it (the utility knife) came free in the blink of an eye, cut the carpet and my finger like butter.  

After xrays the doc said the blade lodged into the top-most part of the finger bone, which is what kept 1/2 of the tip from being lopped right off.

Ever see kill bill one?  LOL, my finger was like an instant squirt-gun.  nasty stuff.

take care.

-biju.

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gexter
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #30 - 04/12/06 at 23:35:18
 
biju
Excellant work.. sorry about your finger man.
I like the whole build, it is something to be proud of.
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J_Rock
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber?
Reply #31 - 04/13/06 at 21:15:21
 
Wow man, i am so emotional right now.  

I got a rush seeing your awesome work so far.

Then I got all worried for you for your finger cut.

Then I laughed when you mentioned Kill bill and the squirting blood effects.

LOL.  Get well, nice work, talk to you again soon!
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #32 - 04/23/06 at 02:00:00
 
Hey DB junkies!

I've got great news.  

1) Finger's healing nicely.
2) My surgery was a success.
3) As of today the finished amp-rack is in, DB's installed and wiring complete.  In other words, all's installed in the VechiCROSS!
Cheesy Cheesy

What's left?  Tuning.  I need to tune everything (find the xover points I like, set the parametric eq, then adjust amp gains, etc.)  I plan to do that tomorrow a.m., as tonight I'm completely wiped out!!!  After that I'll post pictures, my wrap up thoughts on the build, and the end results!

-biju.
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #33 - 04/24/06 at 00:55:11
 
*sigh*

That sigh?  A sigh of relief - relieved to have this project done, and the satisfaction of knowing all turned out better than I could ever have thought (especially as I consider myself a car audio novice).  I'd never make it as a car audio professional, as I'm way too slow & clumsy (see finger hack job in previous post). LOL...

The original question was what would happen if the sealed chamber of the DB was increased?  In short, I won't know that answer until I build another DB to spec. and compare.  I plan on doing this eventually (for the home), but it will be a while.  The question was asked originally because I knew I wanted to use the MTX 8410-44’s, and was concerned about the sub’s displacement, and I wanted to make sure that I could get them to hit as low as I possibly could without changing the plans too much. Other considerations were making sure they’d still fit into my design, etc.  In the end, as mentioned previously, the sealed chamber was lengthened by one inch.

The boxes weren’t too hard to build, but I did take my sweet time with them. Lots of sanding, and making sure everything was accurate. The amprack on the other hand did prove to be a bit of a challenge.  Making everything clean with hidden inputs, holes, assembly, etc., was a pain in the arse.  It was also tricky to make sure that the amprack was securely mounted to the vehicle – however I was able to resolve that issue with some ingenuity and a few special order bolts…  If you read my previous posts I wanted to finish the rack in vinyl, however, after a few test runs I quickly discovered that the vinyl wasn’t as forgiving when it came to blemishes in the wood, etc.  Padding helped that issue, but ended up looking too bulky for me.  In the end, I went with good ol’ old-skool sub box carpet for the finish. I dunno, it looks good enough I suppose.

Power is provided by Stinger all the way around. 0/1 gauge supply to a distributor that splits into 4 – 4 gauge power wires (between the DB’s). The old-skool PPI’s have standard 8 gauge inputs, so to accommodate this I bought eight 4 gauge to 8 gauge reducer adapters. They look sweet in addition to being functional.

After wiring everything I was more than happy to power her up. Gently turned up the volume 1/4 of the way and heard sweet sweet sound. (everything flat, no processing).  I was pleased with what I was hearing.  However, a little intimidated to turn it up until xover and tuned, etc.  Played with the setting’s a while, and came up with settings that I felt really pushed the DB’s.  (I was anxious to hear them both in concert pushed to the limits!).  Here’s the settings:

# Crossover #
[Frequency(Hz)/Slope(dB/oct)/Level(dB)]
Front:160.0/24/-1
Center:160/24/-1
Rear:160.0/24/-1
SW:63.0/24/-1

# Parametric-EQ #
[Frequency(Hz)/Level(dB)/Width(Q)]
Band1:40.0/+6/3
Band2:125.0/-3/3
Band3:1.0k/+4/3
Band4:2.5k/+5/3
Band5:8.0k/+6/3

I’ve got the ability to set six parametric configurations, as well as six xover configurations – so I’ll be playing with those more in the future to accommodate various musical genres. But for now, the above is what I went with to initially hear the system pushed.  With the gains set properly I finally cranked her up!  LOL, OMG, WTF?!!!  PURE INSANITY!!!!  There was nothing but crystal clear sound as loud as I could take her (or stand it). The sound was full, rich, deep, crisp, pleasing tones from across the spectrum.  Bass tones literally blurred my vision and took my breath as the DB’s executed them effortlessly.  A friend who came over later to watch the Nuggets game with me sat in the VehiCROSS as I cranked it up.  With the same blurred vision I was experiencing he looks and tries to yell over to me, “I can feel the bass crushing my nuts!”.  My labors are validated.  LOL…  I wanted the ability to enjoy DEEP clean bass as well as overall SQ on demand.  I’m pretty sure mission accomplished!

Setup:

Optima Yellow Top
Stinger 0/1 & 4 gauge power/ground
10 gauge speaker wire throughout
Stinger HPM 0/1 gauge to 4 – 4 gauge dist.
Alpine CDA-9835
Boston Acoustic Pro 6.5 (Front)
Boston Acoustic Pro 5.5 (Rear)
Alpine SBS-05DC DIN center channel
2 – MTX 8410-44
2 – PPI A600 @ 3ohms
PPI A1200 @ 4ohms
PPI A100 @ 4ohms

Here are the final pics of the build.  Thanks for reading.  Enjoy!












-biju.

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Adrian D.
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #34 - 04/24/06 at 05:07:49
 
smashing install. i'm all like him >  ;D
and now, the question i've been waiting to ask : with that much xmax(about 26mm IIRC) on the mtxs, do you get any port noise ?
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DirtDawg
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #35 - 04/24/06 at 13:43:02
 
Very nice, indeed, biju! Excellent choice of colors, too.

I only have one criticism. Shouldn't your tagline read:

..... cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut "5HIT!!!"

Glad it's healing up OK. Smiley
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biju
Ex Member



Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #36 - 04/24/06 at 23:10:08
 
Thanks guys!  I appreciate the feedback...

The port noise is pretty much a non issue.  Until you asked the question I hadn't even thought about it (as there is little to none).  I was able to round out (router/sand) the half-moon, so maybe that helped?  As the system plays I did put my hand over the port hoping to find massive amounts of air being moved. To my surprise that simply wasn't the case...  Very strange - but what the hell.  I can't argue with results...

The only real issue I have now is to track down and find where this nasty alternator whine is coming from...  I'm pretty sure it's the ground to the headunit, as I kind of hurried myself through that part.

Thanks again for reading...

-biju.



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60ndown
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #37 - 04/24/06 at 23:21:49
 
i hope you have an alarm, if you were to park that car anywhere near any of the places i have lived over the years you would lose it all? glad it sounds good tho and that is a sweet cut.here's one of my more recent carless moves, opening a package from the mail man too quickly....you are not alone in the reckless wound catagory. Wink

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jj420
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #38 - 04/25/06 at 00:53:13
 
SWEET, this is turning into a gore thread, wish i'd taken a pic of the barbed wire accident before they stitched me up LOL...
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Jet-Lee
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #39 - 04/25/06 at 05:17:37
 
aww damn, all my hacksaw slips are healing up. I might snap a few of what's left, if I deem them worthy.

EDIT- Sweet install man!
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« Last Edit: 04/25/06 at 05:17:50 by Jet-Lee »  
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bean-a-reano
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #40 - 04/25/06 at 06:39:22
 
That is a sick install.  Your hard work was well worth it.
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Hellion
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #41 - 09/30/06 at 07:39:00
 
NICE!!!  I hope you don't mind a little copycatting.  well I'm building a WO for my roomate's Chrysler 300C  I think that rhyno lining will be a good idea.  He is a rich guy who needs everything to look like a million bucks.  I am thinking about hiding the amps and using computer fans to cool them. ???
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biju
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Re: Increase DB Sealed Chamber : AFTERMATH
Reply #42 - 10/29/06 at 23:40:37
 

You know you're addicted to car audio when you finish an install and five months later you rip it all out to rebuild once again...

The why?  Well, 1) for the fun of it, and; 2) for more power - of course.

Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss

To anybody interested I'll be selling my two DB's you see above, as well as most of the components (sans the a1200). Questions? - send me a message on this site.

-biju.

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