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Splitting WO32 for stereo pair? (Read 8551 times)
nodiak
Ex Member



Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
02/18/06 at 16:19:15
 
First off, I'm just asking a question, not challenging the design, because I don't know any better  ;D. I'm hoping for reasons it might or won't work based on experience/knowledge of those that do, especially anyone that's tried it.
I'll be trying a couple tl designs too to hear what works best with my system/room. Electronic xo and seperate amp, ob mains.
I'll be trying the bass systems under/close to the mains for stereo.
OK, here's the real question: can the WO32 cabinet perform as intended if split into 2 sections. Each section would still have the mouth area of the designed unit. So, for each single driver unit the diagonal from back of cab continues, but as a solid wall.
You see, I'm just starting to learn about this design and don't know if mouth size is because of 2 drivers, or works for 1 driver.
My idea would be to have the option of the unit standing on a side, so the mouth is still on the floor (diagonal facing floor, build a flat bottom" so it will stand up, maybe fill the void with sand...different issue...). The output gets extended by floor as intended this way, and I could rest mains on top (decoupled) if want to.
So, another thing I don't know is whether the design requires 2 drivers to function correctly, or is it a marriage of 2 single units that can be divorced  ;D.
Don
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nodiak
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #1 - 02/18/06 at 17:07:21
 
realized with some cutting and glueing the 2 units could be joined for a normal-as-designed wo32 if it didn't work out.
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Adrian D.
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Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #2 - 02/18/06 at 18:47:06
 
i guess it's better to try it "stock" and then try to modd if you don't like it.
my idea : don't mess with the design. take it as it is and enjoy Wink
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nodiak
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #3 - 02/18/06 at 19:52:06
 
The question is whether it IS changing the function of the design or if the seperate woofer/chamber/horns can operate alone successfully, with the appropriate mouth size. The purpose is to have stereo without building 2 full units, along with a smaller total cab size that monitors can fit on.
Since the mouth seems to be the only part that both woofers use (?) it might work if it is proportioned correctly.
I think it's a worthy question as it will lead to understanding the design better at least.
I'm not trying to do battle with the design, or just coming up with something different. It just seems possible and would serve a purpose in my system.
I'll try it since they can be joined to stock specs if it doesn't work. Although I'll need to make a stock one also for comparison... Cry
But still wondering if anyone has done this ?  :)
Don
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DirtDawg
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Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #4 - 02/18/06 at 20:52:42
 
[quote author=nodiak  link=1140283155/0#3 date=1140292326]But still wondering if anyone has done this ?  :)
Don   [/quote]
It sounds like BigAir did it.

Check this old thread.

..... and this one
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nodiak
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #5 - 02/18/06 at 22:58:14
 
Perfect perfect perfect. Thanks DirtDawg!
I just sold some speakers so will use a little of the $ for another pair of woofers that have different parameters, lighter cone, more spl.
Gonna be fun!...I hope!...
Still up for hearing others experiences with this idea.
Don
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DirtDawg
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Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #6 - 02/19/06 at 04:29:04
 
Sorry, Nodiak, but in a moment of cerebral flatulence I messed you up, here. Those links I put up are from the WO forum, not the WO32 forum. Half of a WO HAS been tried before, but the WO32 may not act the same. You may be all on your own with this one.
To me the cabinet won't be all that much smaller if the guys who cut down the WO are right. You still need the whole horn mouth, so the cabinet will only be about 1/3 smaller. I don't know if that would be a benefit or not.

Are you going to match them up with an OB?

When I first started using OB's again, I used a stereo pair of 12" sealed subs and got great results up to 140Hz where my Fostex's took over. I think the actual crossover setting was around 90Hz, but the rising response of the sub was leveled out by the lower crossover point and matched perfectly with the little Fostex OB's.
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Mr Content
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Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #7 - 02/19/06 at 08:49:24
 
Don, I am using 2 WO32's with my OB's. I know size and placement may be important to you, But what I can say is, the 32 keeps up well with the B200's. I still have issues about the 32 to make really deep bass, but it is OK.

Mr C
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nodiak
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #8 - 02/19/06 at 18:30:08
 
DD, noticed it was for wo. I still think it's worth a try because it can be made into a stock unit if it fails (trimming off mouths appropriately, glue together, use another top and bottom layer -maybe 1/4"-1/2"-to hold it together...).
The cab should reduce to ~ 24"h (?) on it's side with mouth at floor, good for ob monitors on top (decouple if needed).

I also used stereo 12" subs with Fostex ob's crossed~ 150hz. Used FE167e's and dual FE107e's (liked 'em better). Both in very small ob's, idea a variation of Olsher's Bass Zilla.
Last year I had a big room - 24 x 30 x 12h- so I could go big. Now I have small room -11.5 x 26 x 7.5'h, system on one 11.5' end. I need to go small, but want as full bass range as possible.

Need room treatment and am working that up, but still I think wo32 sq will work, using Vifa M22's (8's). Have other 8's to try that aren't designed as sub drivers like M22 is, they might be friendlier.

I'm now using B200, it has real bass (just like Nigel told me!) but not tight enough here, so trying wo32, with B200 in small ob on top. Will bring out the Fostex 107's again to try too.
Also making (if can get to it) tl for same 8's to compare to wo32. I was into tl's in late 80's when Speaker Builder mag showed designs by Galo, Cockroft,etc. Using tl booklet (Quick and Easy TL Speaker Design,by Larry Sharp/Mahogany Sound) for down and dirty get something together method. Also 8" version of Nelson Pass el pipo can be done in an hour or two, got the sonotube and stuffing.

Last year I didn't get many projects done, then moved and didn't listen to audio for 6+ months until last month. I'll see how far my re-energized ambitions can go this time.

Don
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nodiak
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #9 - 02/19/06 at 18:37:41
 
Mr. Nigel C, thanks for looking out for me! I ordered wo32 plans and hope to get to it soon. Like I said above it should reconfigure as single unit if stereo pair fails.
I hear what you say that wo32 isn't really 16hz bass which is too bad. I think in my room good quality to 30hz may be best to expect tho.
I'm still interested in Charlize, should I just order amps only from him? Can get the ps, or battery, etc. elsewhere?
I won a gainclone on ebay, should arrive soon. Good comparison for Charlize.
Don
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Mr Content
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #10 - 02/25/06 at 07:34:40
 
Hey don, yes the gainclones are a pretty good amp. I had one here for about a week, but the charlize has an edge in my system. It can really float the image a lot better, and the charlize has better bass, but both are good. I am looking into other bass solutions, but its not urgaent as what I have is preety darn fabulas. The 32's are tight and fast though.

Mr C
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Ciscokid
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #11 - 09/10/06 at 13:35:04
 
Hi,
I am new to this site and just discovered this thread. Am wondering if anyone actually built this sub as discussed. I too am looking for such a set of subs. I would like to build a custom set of subs that I can sit my Altec Valencia's on. The Altec’s are 26.5” wide by 19” deep. I would like to keep the width of the sub about the same as the Altec. The depth is not a problem.

I have several questions, but two come to mind:

1) If I keep the horn mouth of proper size will half a sub perform as expected?

2) Can the sub be cut down to the 26” to 27” size and not interfere with the horn mouth?

Any help with this would be most appreciated.

Best regards,
Danny

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jj420
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #12 - 09/10/06 at 14:19:28
 
Cisko.

A couple of things, first, the WO32 is more like a tapered pipe than a horn (it is too shart to support horn behavior).  That means that if you change the dimensions of the box in a way that changes the length of the path from the driver to the mouth the tuning will raise (less bass, not a good thing)  Second. If all else remains the same, two half of anything will perform the same as a whole one, wel within a db or so anyways.  In the case of the wo32 though I would question that, as the final slug of air at the horn mouth should be driven by both drivers in this design, cutting it in half might just destroy your response completely...

Try it and see if you really wanna, but stereo bass is almost completely a lost cause, as you cannot possibly get the two wavefronts far enough apart to hear each distinctly.  Unlike higher frequencies that beam and are directional, low frequencies disperse in a spherical manner, making it very hard to pinpoint a source, even if there is only one.

I can pinpoint the source of my subwoofer only above normal listening levels, where the higher harmonics become directional.  Below and at my normal listening levels you would never know that the sub is not in the front of the room like the rest of my setup.  I am not trying to outright discourage you, but you should know that you are likely on the road of diminishing returns.  Build one and see if thats good enough first...

JJ
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Ciscokid
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #13 - 09/10/06 at 18:23:09
 
Hi JJ,
Thanks for the response. Yeah, I was just wondering if anyone had actually built the sub as described in this thread. I may start gathering parts and see what happens. Do you happen to know the distance between one side wo32 and the edge of the mouth on the opposite side?

One more thing, I am not as concerned about the stereo effect of the bass, as I am the semectricial look of the setup in my room.

Best regards,
Danny
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« Last Edit: 09/10/06 at 18:28:12 by Ciscokid »  
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gexter
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Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #14 - 09/10/06 at 18:42:42
 
Steve Deckert does!
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jj420
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #15 - 09/11/06 at 01:13:28
 
Gex is correct, even if I did know the dimension you asked for (which I dont), it is not mine to give out, Steve charges a nominal fee for the WO32 plans, and nothing for the WO plans on the main site.

For me to tell you this would be for me to breach a trust with a man I have never even had the pleasure of doing business with.  I am not prepared to do this, as I do at one point hope to do business with Decware and would hate to start off on the wrong foot, as it were.

sorry
JJ
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Ciscokid
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #16 - 09/11/06 at 01:39:58
 
Hi JJ,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to bypass purchasing the plans. I simply wanted to know the width of the horn to see if it is close to the width of my Altec’s so that I may stack. If the numbers match or are close, then I will consider purchasing a set of plans for my own consumption. I take it that “Steve Deckert” is the owner of these designs, and if so, then I will ask him directly.

Thanks for you input on this.

Best regards,
Danny
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #17 - 09/11/06 at 03:03:17
 
I was not sure on what you were asking, I thought you may have been asking for internal dimensions. If it was just the mouth maybe I can help. How big is the mouth on your altec?

If you have to stack subs then the WO32 is not for you,
it belongs on the floor.
the WO is another story.
IMHO only
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Ciscokid
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #18 - 09/11/06 at 03:35:12
 
Hi gexter,

What I have is a pair of Altec Valencia speakers that I would like to augment the bass on by using a subwoofer(s). The Altecs are 26.5 inches wide and 19 inches deep. Because of space concerns, I am looking into building a pair of subs that can also be used as stands for the Altecs. With the WO32’s being a little over 13 inches tall, that would put the Altecs at a better listening level for me plus have subs for the bottom feeding.

My original question dealt with the subject of this thread, the splitting of a wo32. I am basically wondering if the width of a split wo32 is anywhere close to 26.5 inches? If so, then the wo32 is a candidate.

Hope I have not muddied this up more..

Best regards,
Danny
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jj420
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #19 - 09/11/06 at 13:45:54
 
but splitting a WO, or WO32 would kill all the magic of this design...
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #20 - 09/11/06 at 15:59:14
 
Well, the WO 32's width is 32 inches as a complete unit.  16 inches if split directly in half, and somewhere around 22-24 inches if you continue the flare.

I doubt splitting a WO or WO32 will kill the magic of the designs- it will loose some output I would suppose, and the space saving benefit of having the flares combine.  But by splitting either design and continueing the flare, you would get 2 times the horn mouth coupling to the room.

I plan on splitting a 12 inch WO directly down the middle soon.  I will be sure to reply with my findings.
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #21 - 09/12/06 at 03:56:10
 


I would not split WO32, but a WO I would in a blink of a eye.
if your splitting a WO32 it may be a complete waste of time and wind up thinking what a piece of garbage the design is.

J rock I am looking forward to your findings and thanks for taking it on when I can't anymore and no one else has.
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« Last Edit: 09/13/06 at 02:44:43 by gexter »  
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Ciscokid
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #22 - 09/13/06 at 00:57:52
 
[quote author=J_Rock  link=1140283155/15#20 date=1157986754]..... somewhere around 22-24 inches if you continue the flare....
[/quote]

Well, if that is the case, then building a box that is 26.5" should work for what I have in mind.

[quote author=J_Rock  link=1140283155/15#20 date=1157986754] But by splitting either design and continueing the flare, you would get 2 times the horn mouth coupling to the room. [/quote]

This is a good thing, right? By splitting the horn and doubling the  horn mouth, what should I expect as far as sound is concerned if the horns are about 10 feet apart?
Regards,
Danny
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #23 - 09/13/06 at 02:25:35
 
Basically- by splitting the mouth you loose efficiency because the entire mouth works for both flares in the regular single box.  

But to offset that somewhat there will be 2 seperate horns, and depending on how you do it 2 x the coupling area. (2 complete horns-not just split down the middle)

So in my theory, you would have 2 x the coupling area and satelite subs.  Rather then one single unit.  This would be helpful for fill and room nodes and placement.  

However- it is impossible to truly know how the WO32 sharing the last horn bend changes response.  It could be that like JJ said, splitting the design ruins the magik- but I think keeping the flare in tact wouldn't do much- if any- harm.
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« Last Edit: 09/13/06 at 02:26:56 by j_rock777 »  
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hannes
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Re: Splitting WO32 for stereo pair?
Reply #24 - 09/15/06 at 17:01:24
 
The "WO32 Frequency Response" thread by goldenk10 could
shed a little light on this: as far as I understood it, he modeled
a single-driver-full-horn-version and verified this with a fully built
WO32 with two drivers. In his experiment, the frequency response
was the same.

Bye,
 Hannes
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« Last Edit: 09/15/06 at 17:03:39 by hannes »  
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