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To say the least, the anticipation is building ... (Read 24573 times)
Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #200 - 04/27/06 at 19:49:57
 


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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #201 - 04/27/06 at 20:03:18
 




There they are.  I will post a few more photos after the drivers are installed and the finishing is done.

After that ..... you probably won't hear from me for a few days ..... Smiley

Randy
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Mr Content
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #202 - 04/28/06 at 06:02:26
 
Great job. and it only took 1 day, or was it 2 days, gee I dont know now.......... Wink
Mike well done, and Randy no doubt you were a worthy 2IC.
Thanks for the pics.

Mr C
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #203 - 04/28/06 at 14:45:38
 
[quote author=Mr Content  link=1139429263/195#202 date=1146200546]Mike well done, and Randy no doubt you were a worthy 2IC.

Mr C [/quote]

Yes ..... Mike said that I did a fine job of handing him the tools ..... Smiley

Regards,

Randy
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Mr Content
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #204 - 04/28/06 at 15:42:00
 
Hey,  what about the coffee?  :)  ;D

Mr C
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paulc
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #205 - 04/28/06 at 22:08:00
 
I know the Lord said that I should not covet my neighbors wife but he didn't say anything about Imperials did he?
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9anda1f
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #206 - 04/29/06 at 04:17:39
 
OMG, Randy, they're awesome!
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John in CR
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #207 - 04/29/06 at 06:52:35
 
They look great, but I see a problem.  Someone forgot to put the drivers in before attaching the front plate.  "Oh no Mr. Bill"......... Wink
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60ndown
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #208 - 04/29/06 at 15:27:50
 
yea they are well made, my 2 day imps wouldnt look like yours randy (but with the same drivers they might sound similar), mine would need bondo and paint for sure, looks to me like you can just leave yours the way they are Grin
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« Last Edit: 04/29/06 at 15:29:21 by 60ndown »  
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DaveCan
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #209 - 04/29/06 at 17:31:41
 
[quote author=paulc  link=1139429263/195#205 date=1146258480]I know the Lord said that I should not covet my neighbors wife but he didn't say anything about Imperials did he? [/quote]

 Yep he did   Grin  you shall not covet Randy's house,wife,male servant,female servant,his ox,donky nor anything that is Randy's..  :)

 Those are looking real nice Randy good job.  Dave Smiley
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« Last Edit: 04/29/06 at 17:32:50 by DaveCan »  
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #210 - 05/01/06 at 01:56:06
 
Well ..... they are done ..... Smiley

We hauled them to my listening room last night and forgot to bring Mike's camera ..... so, unfortunately, I am forced to share a couple of photos taken with my crappy digital camera that couldn't focus if my life depended on it ..... Undecided

I will borrow Mike's camera and have a few proper photos in a day or two ..... Roll Eyes



Randy
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #211 - 05/01/06 at 01:57:49
 



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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #212 - 05/01/06 at 01:59:52
 



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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #213 - 05/01/06 at 02:03:20
 


My sincere apologies for the wretched photos ..... Tongue

The short version ..... the SO Imperials sound better than the photos look ..... ???

More in a few days about the sound .....

Randy

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Brian
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #214 - 05/01/06 at 02:30:24
 
They are certainly wonderful beauties.  I am happy for you Randy.  ;D
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selmerdave
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #215 - 05/01/06 at 03:18:01
 
Yeah, Randy, the short version isn't going to cut it.  My jealousy is merely piqued and not entirely consuming me.  Okay, well maybe it is but I want to hear about it anyway.

Congrats.

Dave
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Doorman
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #216 - 05/01/06 at 03:51:01
 
Those look Awesome! Oh, and did I say they're quite BIG!!
 More photo's and impressions, please!
                                                         Don
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DirtDawg
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #217 - 05/01/06 at 04:17:48
 
[quote author=Randy in Caintuck  link=1139429263/210#213 date=1146445400]

My sincere apologies for the wretched photos ..... Tongue

Randy

[/quote]
Forget the camera, the pictures are beautiful! I'm sitting here looking up and down this page and sinning over and over, again. Smiley
Not really ..... I'm very happy for you, Randy. I can't imagine how they could be built any better or look any nicer. Hats off (and thrown in the air) for Sir Mike!

Just like Dave, I gotta know. You will need weeks for the break-in and we all realize this, but the first watt question is just hangin' there. Please, throw us a bone!
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60ndown
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #218 - 05/01/06 at 06:04:16
 
dont ya wana toe em in a bit?
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Chris K
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #219 - 05/01/06 at 10:14:44
 
Bass frequencies need no toe in 60.
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Lon
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #220 - 05/01/06 at 10:23:32
 
Congrats Randy!  Beyouteeful!
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DirtDawg
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #221 - 05/01/06 at 12:23:03
 
[quote author=60ndown  link=1139429263/210#218 date=1146459856]dont ya wana toe em in a bit? [/quote]
Bass horns have only a slight directionality noticeable in free space or half space as an eggshaped high pressure area.  It is only an extremely close field phenomenon, but it makes close field use like monitoring in a studio setting, difficult.

At approx. the distance equal to the horn mouth circumference the effect is completely nullified and the horn will have the normal cardiod at mid bass to omnidirectional at the lowest bass dispersion pattern you would expect from any other low frequency radiator. In 1/4 or 1/8 space, however, there is so much reinforcement from the corners themselves, the low frequency horn's directionality is not noticeable, unless someone is listening about a foot from the mouth or something crazy like that. Those people usually go home pretty sick at the end of the night.

The only reason for turning the cabinets would be to try to increase the efficiency of the corner loading. The loading of corners might be increased by facing the Imperials into the corners at some angle, but I would try it straight ahead first, just for esthetic reasons. You might not need to "retune" the corners at all.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/06 at 12:34:25 by DirtDawg »  
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60ndown
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #222 - 05/01/06 at 13:51:10
 
actually i have had great results with my subs 'faceing' the corner. give it a few weeks randy and then turn em 180 degrees....just to see ???
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dank
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #223 - 05/01/06 at 14:29:51
 
[quote author=60ndown  link=1139429263/210#222 date=1146487870]actually i have had great results with my subs 'faceing' the corner. give it a few weeks randy and then turn em 180 degrees....just to see ??? [/quote]

Randy
I agree with this statement from 60ndown, and would be curious if you get as good a results as I've gotten.  I'm seeing a 6 to 7 db increase in SPL by just turning one sub around so it fires into the corner.  This is without any power increase from the amp.

DanK
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Adrian D.
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #224 - 05/01/06 at 14:36:29
 
but you loose the looks. that's the only bad part
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bassboy
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #225 - 05/01/06 at 15:44:59
 
As I mentioned before, playing with positioning can improve not only sensitivity but also frequency response.  I have a feeling that neither are going to be incredibly important to Randy, considering his taste in music and listening level.  I don't think his music goes really low and I don't think he's turning it up much.  I may be wrong...
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bassboy
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #226 - 05/01/06 at 15:58:56
 
But then there is the possibility of room reflections bouncing off the wall and being forced through the horn, as the throat is open to the room.  I don't know what effect that would have, it would probably be small but maybe facing the SO into the corner might be bad.  Who knows.  Not me.
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #227 - 05/01/06 at 21:55:23
 
[quote author=DirtDawg  link=1139429263/210#217 date=1146453468]

Just like Dave, I gotta know. You will need weeks for the break-in and we all realize this, but the first watt question is just hangin' there. Please, throw us a bone! [/quote]

Howdy DD and Dave,

Where to begin ..... ???

To start with, as bassboy accurately observes, I did not have these speakers built for the same reason that many music lovers would want them.  Most of the music I enjoy is fairly simple acoustic stuff ..... with the occasional electric blues thrown in for a change of pace.  

What caught my attention at the 2005 DecFest was the incredible air and sense of the recording space that the SO Imperials added to the performance.  Make no mistake, if there is serious bass content in the music, the SOs will make it known.  I have a copy of Toccata and Fugue in D minor that Mike and I played while he was at the house ..... and even with 2 watts a channel it was pretty impressive.

But, back to the reason I had them built .....

Stand up acoustic bass simply sounds like stand up acoustic bass ..... and other "fundamental" instruments sound as they should, as well.

I recently bought a CD from CD Baby titled Brother Red -Kickin' It and cut #12 is a song called "Tears".  It's a Hammond organ, guitar, drum kit and vocals.  While "Mr. Red" is not the most polished vocalist in the world, he has great enthusiasm ..... and the sound of this cut with the Imperials in the system is the closest thing to a live performance I have ever heard.  The Hammond is growly, the vocals wonderfully 3-D and the cymbals sound real.  I was already impressed at how this sounded through the Parker Audio Behemoths, but the addition of the Imperials gave the same presentation on steroids.  The instruments and vocals were the correct size, but the ambience of the recording space removed the walls of my listening room.  Everything had a greater sense of palpability, as well.  Just to be sure, I disconnected the Imperials and returned to the listening seat.  Truthfully, there are no words that can describe the difference.

Mike remarked that he was most impressed with the range of dynamics with the Imperials hooked up ..... the effortless contrast between soft and loud as compared to other audio systems that he has heard.  Anyone who is an Eva Cassidy fan knows how she can go from a whisper to a wail ..... and the system now allows an appreciation of this that was not there before the addition of the Imperials.

Another thing that I find so incredible is the effect these speakers have on very simple music that seems to have no bass content.  At the DecFest, I was introduced to the music of Israel Kamakawiwo'ole ..... a huge, (recently deceased) Hawaiian man who played the Ukulele and had a voice like a bird.  I purchased the album "Alone in IZ World" and have been enjoying it immensely.  With the Imperials, it takes on a whole new scale because of the added sense of the recorded space.

As time passes, I will probably experiment with different placement ..... but I am enjoying the music too much to mess with it for now.

I haven't gotten around to trying it with the plate amp hooked up to the Imperials yet.  I can imagine that it will be interesting ..... but, again, what I am getting now is everything I could have hoped for ..... Smiley

No doubt, as the drivers break in, the sound will get even better ..... but if it never does, I don't care.

This whole situation makes me wonder what the smallest room would be that could benefit from one or two of these incredible speakers.  If someone knows the answer to that question, there might be a lot of plywood purchased in the months ahead by the owners of Decware amplifiers .....

Randy

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« Last Edit: 05/01/06 at 22:17:34 by Randy in Caintuck »  
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Lon
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #228 - 05/01/06 at 23:39:42
 
Randy, thanks for tantalizing us with some initial impressions.

I would want these for the same reason you do.  And I can imagine the great sound.  ENJOY!
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DirtDawg
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #229 - 05/02/06 at 00:32:05
 
Hey Randy,

What Lon said! Thanks, for the sneak preview.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #230 - 05/02/06 at 04:03:10
 
[quote author=bassboy  link=1139429263/225#226 date=1146495536]But then there is the possibility of room reflections bouncing off the wall and being forced through the horn, as the throat is open to the room.  I don't know what effect that would have, it would probably be small but maybe facing the SO into the corner might be bad.  Who knows.  Not me. [/quote]

actually sympathetic resonance is one of the issues this design addresses.  The Decware implementation of the original Imperials had that issue in my smallish studio/garage to the point where I seldom had to actually hook an amplifier to them.  They would add bass to anything playing in the room.

In the S.O. design, the woofer is in a sealed box isolated from the horn flare.  Both the mouth and the throat of the horn are exposed to the room.  This greatly reduces the sympathetic effect and makes it possible to use in smaller rooms.


Sound that enters the mouth of the horn simply nulls itself as it travels to the throat and exists bacdk into the room.  No pressure build up. And I think you will find that the resonance of the woofer excited by the same wavefront that entered the mouth is partially out of phase with what sound makes it backwards out of the throat adding further nulling to wave.

The horn flare is difficult to exite unless pressure is evenly developed at a right angle across the throat.  The only thing that can do that is the woofer.  The "carlson" shapped slot works nothing like a carlson horn.   I designed this slot to pre load the driver and move pressure evenly towards the throat.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3045
Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #231 - 05/02/06 at 04:25:14
 
BTW, Randy -

I've been enjoying your posts, especially the last one and pics of your new room.  I have to say that it is a real thrill designing cool audio gear when you can see the results repeated.  I'm very glad you like them.  I will have the plans available on the web site soon.

If we all take a big step back in time to when I first talked to you on the phone, can you imagine how crazy I would have sounded if I told you that 2 watts could drive a room full of speakers with a dynamic range and image exceeding - well almost everything...


I'm certain that if more people - people with no plans to buy more or different audio gear included - could hear this, their priorities would change on the spot.    And ironically while it may seem extreme I know people with speaker cables that cost more than this entire setup and regrettably their sound doesn't even come close.
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« Last Edit: 05/02/06 at 04:31:17 by Steve Deckert »  
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gexter
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #232 - 05/02/06 at 13:30:10
 
I am sold! but then I always was..
thanks Randy for your faithful and informative thread,
This design has captured me from the day I heard about it.
Well the corner horn too. the two designs I will never have but always want.

wonderful pictures, I really don't care if a couple are a little fuzzy.
You have no idea how enjoyable of a thread you have made.  :)
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #233 - 05/02/06 at 15:31:38
 
[quote author=Steve Deckert  link=1139429263/225#231 date=1146540314]  I have to say that it is a real thrill designing cool audio gear when you can see the results repeated.  I'm very glad you like them.  I will have the plans available on the web site soon.

[/quote]

Steve,

I started this thread with these words .....

"Based on what I heard at the most recent DecFest, this will be the end of my audio journey ..... and I want to offer in advance my heartfelt gratitude to Steve Deckert and Bob (Zygi) for their help and inspiration in making these wonderful speakers available to the readers of this forum ....."

After hearing what these speakers have done for my system, I wish to repeat my gratitude.  I have to believe that anyone who can add the SO Imperials to their system will be thrilled with the results ..... Smiley

Best wishes,

Randy  

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change_out
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #234 - 05/02/06 at 17:38:15
 
I want to also say thank you to Steve and Bob. Seldom have I met such talented men who are so humble.

Yes, Steve my priorities changed on the spot from the moment I heard the Imperials. I did'nt want to audition any of the other gear, go to your room to hear your wonderful vinyl rig or really even do anything other than scheme out how to get a pair of these mighty speakers.

It was Friday night , at the fest, when Steve disconnected the plate amp from the Parker Crusader woofer and connected the Imperial to a single select. Randy was the first to his feet followed closely by myself. The output of sound was so enormous, not in volume but in width and depth, it was (as Randy describes) palpabale. All I could do was shake my head and change audio directions.

Many things can knock your socks off. Very few can suck the socks back on to your feet. The SO Imperials are most assuredly in the the later category!

Build them if you can or have them built-you will not be disappointed.

Tim

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jj420
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #235 - 05/02/06 at 22:31:39
 
I lurked this whole thread, and didnt say a thing...

I am still speechless, they are beautiful.

Thanks for the insiders view

JJ
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BIG_GEOFF
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #236 - 05/03/06 at 02:38:58
 
I have to say, those SO's are looking pretty sweet.  Looking really nice and finish.  Makes me want a pair, or maybe just one.  THats where im stuck, i have one imperial, and i want another one, and the SO is just soo tempting.   What do you guys think?  Add another imperial to the lot so i can ditch the mono and go stereo with a pair or stay mono and go with a SO to spice things up on the lower end?  Space is an issue so i can only go with one or the other for now.

-Geoff
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Rocket_Ronny
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #237 - 05/03/06 at 02:51:16
 
While I am sure they sound awesome, the WAF on those is very loowwwwww.

Steve, if you could capture 90 percent of what the Imperials do in a box that is at least 1/8 as big, then you would have something very marketable.

Only the hard core with dedicated rooms, and wives who are very accomidating, will end up going with those monsters.

Randy, better buy some roses and give a kiss to the miss, because she is one looonnnnggggg suffering woman.

Rocket_not ready to push the marriage that far_Ronny
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60ndown
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #238 - 05/03/06 at 02:59:56
 
[quote author=Rocket_Ronny  link=1139429263/225#237 date=1146621076]

Steve, if you could capture 90 percent of what the Imperials do in a box that is at least 1/8 as big, then you would have something very marketable.

[/quote]

wo32 4tw Grin
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #239 - 05/03/06 at 14:48:38
 
[quote author=Rocket_Ronny  link=1139429263/225#237 date=1146621076]While I am sure they sound awesome, the WAF on those is very loowwwwww.

Only the hard core with dedicated rooms, and wives who are very accomidating, will end up going with those monsters.

Randy, better buy some roses and give a kiss to the miss, because she is one looonnnnggggg suffering woman.

Rocket_not ready to push the marriage that far_Ronny [/quote]

Howdy Ron,

That is why I built a dedicated listening room in the basement ..... Smiley

Linda has the first and second floors of the house and I don't tell her how to decorate them ..... and I have my 16' x 26' space with the same courtesy from her.

She rarely comes into my lair and would rather be run over by a cement truck than sit and listen to music ..... Roll Eyes

However, my 24 year old daughter came over for a visit and a listening session and was duly impressed.  She thought that the room and the SO Imperials were "cool" ..... ???

That's my baby girl ..... Wink

Randy
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Chris K
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #240 - 05/03/06 at 15:17:59
 
Randy,
You might as well just gear up for early retirement, cause how are you gonna get ANY work done with the sleep you're missing having those SO's in the basement?
I can see it now. Early/Late lunches, napping in your car, delegating IT duties to unqualified underlings, bribing co-workers to cover for you and others running interference for your boss. ???
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« Last Edit: 05/03/06 at 15:22:24 by Chris K »  
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Rocket_Ronny
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #241 - 05/03/06 at 19:11:54
 
I would have loved to see your wife's response when you lugged those monsters in the house Randy.

Well honey, you see, I picked up a great deal on these and they do look nice, don't they?

Kind of like when a new amp came to the door and my wife asked what it was.

I said, an amp. She said, how much did THAT cost? I said $5,000.00 bucks. WHAATTTT !!!!! she screeched.

I said, I am only kidding honey, it was only $500.00. The new amp was a breeze after that.

Rocket_always outside the box_Ronny
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« Last Edit: 05/03/06 at 19:39:40 by Rocket_Ronny »  
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Brian
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #242 - 05/04/06 at 02:05:36
 
Audiophiles must be the most sadly whipped group of hobbiests in the country!
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Chris K
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #243 - 05/04/06 at 03:10:06
 
[quote author=Brian  link=1139429263/240#242 date=1146704736]Audiophiles must be the most sadly whipped group of hobbiests in the country! [/quote]
NOT ME! Lips Sealed
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serenechaos
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #244 - 05/04/06 at 20:51:38
 
[quote author=Brian  link=1139429263/240#242 date=1146704736]Audiophiles must be the most sadly whipped group of hobbiests in the country! [/quote]
Me either!   Roll Eyes  

I don't know what anyone else’s wives’ response would be, but I'd love to surprise my wife with a pair of SOs!  
I'd bet she'd love 'em; she loves music, has a great ear, and keeps commenting on how the bass "isn't all there."  Even with volume (balance) adjusted too high on the subs, there is a "fullness" and a "feeling" missing...  

Major re-work on the listening room this weekend, then back to building a pair of corner horns, just wish I had room to augment them with a pair of SOs...  
Robert  :)
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bnew63
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #245 - 05/05/06 at 01:15:58
 
I agree I always found if you bring in the big stuff first anything smaller is a breeze to get through the door.
               Brian
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Rocket_Ronny
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #246 - 05/05/06 at 15:55:34
 
How's this for a WAF story. Well actually a date story.

I know a guy who brought home a nice woman on his Suzuki GSR bike. When she walked into his living room her mouth dropped.

Why, because she was beholding flagship Apogee Ribbons, 2 monster bass cabinates larger than the Imperials loaded with 20' Hartley sub woofers, Mark Levinson 33 mono blocks-you know the expensive ones, and a whole bunch else of audio nervana.

Needless to say he did not marry her.


Actually my wife is easy to get along with as well. She has put up with me having spent nearly $30,000.00 on audio in my lifespan, and another $60,000.00 on recording gear. We get along very well. Just no space for Imperials however.

Rocket_Ronny

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serenechaos
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Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #247 - 05/05/06 at 19:48:09
 
[quote author=Rocket_Ronny  link=1139429263/240#246 date=1146840934]Needless to say he did not marry her. [/quote]
Oh, she didn't like it?  
I was reading the above thinking she might be a music lover & fall in love (with the room, not the dude).   Roll Eyes  

I brought mine home to a couple harley's and an indian in the living room (in various states of running or not),
the other half the room filled w/ piano, synths, recording gear, pa, etc.  
She convinced me low-level playback mignt sound better not blowing through a 1400w pa...
I bought a little zen amp & built a pair of HDTs; she started talking to the tubes & telling me how they "sing differently because they have different personalities."  

I love my wife  ;D
Robert  :)
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stone_of_tone
Ex Member



Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #248 - 05/08/06 at 21:03:32
 
Change Out wrote:
"It was Friday night , at the fest, when Steve disconnected the plate amp from the Parker Crusader woofer and connected the Imperial to a single select. Randy was the first to his feet followed closely by myself. The output of sound was so enormous, not in volume but in width and depth, it was (as Randy describes) palpabale. All I could do was shake my head and change audio directions".

My sediments exactly = I was there.... . The music has a place to go in Steve's words are so true. Steve and Ziggy are humble talented guys to say the least. That damn Zen Select does it all for me... . Congrats Randy, you dawg!!! Change Out=thanks again for the cool shirts at DecFest....and do you have any new pics...maybe I missed them.

Stone of Tone  :)
PS - I wish I had the room for them!  I wonder how small of a room you can put one (1) in? ....I did get wood base for my Select....she looks....goooood!
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« Last Edit: 05/08/06 at 21:05:25 by stone_of_tone »  
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DaveCan
Ex Member



Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Reply #249 - 05/21/06 at 03:12:57
 
Hey Randy, just thought I'd check in and ask how life with the Imperials is going?  I wish I had some room for those, how are they sounding?  Dave Smiley
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