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Finishing HDT's (Read 6629 times)
Jason_S
Ex Member



Finishing HDT's
01/24/06 at 03:32:40
 
Varathane... wait... sand...  Varathane... wait... sand... Varathane...

Man, if I knew it was this much hassle I would have put the drivers in last week and listened with my eyes closed.  :-[
The suspense is getting to me.  AHH HA HA HA HA HA!

J
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Yoda
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #1 - 01/24/06 at 04:22:11
 
I put my drivers in 1.25 years ago, and they are still raw MDF....
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teepeeworks
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #2 - 01/24/06 at 04:51:18
 
Jason,

Could be worse, could be:

HDT's: $2220 Canadian
Shipping: I forget exactly but several hundred
Taxes: $233

I guess our dollar is doing much better know, I bought mine near record lows.

Take care,

Corey  :)
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #3 - 01/24/06 at 05:18:07
 
I dunno Corey.  

Table Saw $700
Used Router, $50
Router Bit Set $100.
Another Router Bit $25
Yet another Router Bit $25
And yet another router bit set $60 (the expensive one because it was the only one in town)
Plans & Stuff $100
MDF $100
Drivers $500 (same exchange rate and taxes, welcome to Canada)
More materials $50.
Plywood for the exterior $45  (cause veneer was $200)
Passives $50
Phone calls $50
Going to walmart for Foam $100  ($6 for foam, $95 other crap while there)

I'm thinking ordering them ready made is Cheap.  That doesn't take into consideration the time to build them or the 2 years getting around to it either...

Jason

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« Last Edit: 01/24/06 at 05:19:22 by Jason »  
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #4 - 01/24/06 at 20:08:01
 
Took me 2 weeks veneer and all cost about $1000 (don´t count tools I use anyway Smiley) The veneer (mahogany 2 foot wide) only cost 50$ while the acoustic foam cost me 150$ Angry for 9 square feet! Go figure

Would have cost about 6000$ !!!!! to import so it was a no brainier. Yoda get veneering! the HDT´s deserve to look good Smiley
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« Last Edit: 01/24/06 at 20:08:30 by Rap »  
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teepeeworks
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #5 - 01/24/06 at 21:09:29
 
Jason,

You forgot to add:

"And having all those tools around to build walls of diffusors, priceless!"

Take care,

Corey
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Chris K
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #6 - 01/25/06 at 02:44:36
 
Building something really gives you a realistec point of view, yes?
IMHO building it yourself may or may not save you a few bucks but ultimately self-build is a labor of love and of wanting to say "I built it myself". Now designing a speaker, implementing the discovery, and then tweaking and testing to a high level of satisfaction (others as well as your own) now that must be a super "feeling".  ;D
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #7 - 01/25/06 at 06:13:05
 
[quote author=teepeeworks  link=1138077160/0#5 date=1138136969]Jason,

You forgot to add:

"And having all those tools around to build walls of diffusors, priceless!"

Take care,

Corey [/quote]

They are on the list Smiley  Right after the Wo32

J
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #8 - 01/25/06 at 06:19:17
 
[quote author=Chris K  link=1138077160/0#6 date=1138157076]Building something really gives you a realistec point of view, yes?
IMHO building it yourself may or may not save you a few bucks but ultimately self-build is a labor of love and of wanting to say "I built it myself". Now designing a speaker, implementing the discovery, and then tweaking and testing to a high level of satisfaction (others as well as your own) now that must be a super "feeling".  ;D [/quote]

Definately a good feeling.
I'm more into the automotive/metal side of things so the woodworking is a nice change.

I thought for a first speaker project, it would be good to go with a 'trusted' design.  You can learn a lot by working through someone elses design process.  I watched a friend of mine go through building a set of nice looking speakers that sounded really marginal.

J
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #9 - 02/05/06 at 23:40:38
 
Well,  Got tired of finishing, decided they were good enough so I installed the foam, drivers and glued the passives in.

Who hoo!  Now I can start on something different, like a wo32.

J
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« Last Edit: 02/05/06 at 23:41:02 by Jason »  
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #10 - 02/06/06 at 00:05:22
 
Don´t forget to give the HDT´s a listen Smiley
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« Last Edit: 02/06/06 at 00:05:33 by Rap »  
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #11 - 02/06/06 at 00:17:07
 
I have.
I hope they change -  DRASTICALLY.

J
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #12 - 02/06/06 at 00:31:07
 
If you have a new Fostex in them don´t worry they will. Mine had me graiting my teeth and pulling hairs for the first week Sad  :'( Now it just gets better and better  ??? were will it end Smiley
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franksmith
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #13 - 02/06/06 at 15:47:44
 
How long do you evaluate a good burn-in period ?

I'm about 200 hours on mine.
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« Last Edit: 02/06/06 at 15:48:24 by franksmith »  
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #14 - 02/06/06 at 15:57:05
 
"Mo´betta makes it more better "200 hour´s is minimum IMHO I´d think 4-800 with them still getting everso slightly better even after 2000 hour´s But this is with the old fostex cone type
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Chris K
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #15 - 02/06/06 at 18:32:19
 
Yep Rap!
ShOO You BE Daam Right! Grin
The FE206E needs "beau coup" break in before it gives up its anal retentive and agressive personality but when it happens it is very very noticable. So Jason and Frank don't worry it will get better. I'd say 500 plus hours is good but I suppose it is how hard you push them in the bass (excursion) for the duration of the break in. You can very much hurt these with over excursion but I was surprised at how far they could be pushed. Lot's of us at DecFest '03 said the Fostex drivers opened up after the first day but Steve confirmed that this driver got much better after the whole gig was over and he started to spend hours and hours of serious listening to it. That is of course the time he came up with the "socket" phase plug and other tweaks like damping material on the whole motor/basket assy.
Give em time! Grin
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« Last Edit: 02/06/06 at 18:32:45 by Chris K »  
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Yoda
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #16 - 02/07/06 at 04:22:10
 
I left mine on everyday while at work for weeks, months.  They definitely got better in phases.  There was the first week, then the first two months.  They stayed that way for a year and a half.  Then they changed yet again.  fuller sound each time. Everything since the first month was great and got better since then.   Don't overlook the felt on the 'phase plug' tweak...and tweaking your room...and the right tube recipe...

Cheers!

Matt

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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #17 - 02/09/06 at 02:11:10
 
I put the EX transformers back in the select tonight.  Absolutely, unquestionably a must do for a HDT/CS combo.  

For those of you following the EX hum thread, I can't say I noticed any more hum.  There is a bit of P/S noise at idle, but nothing you can hear once you get your head out of the speaker cone.

J
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #18 - 02/09/06 at 15:19:13
 
[quote author=Jason_S  link=1138077160/15#17 date=1139451070]I put the EX transformers back in the select tonight.  Absolutely, unquestionably a must do for a HDT/CS combo.  

For those of you following the EX hum thread, I can't say I noticed any more hum.  There is a bit of P/S noise at idle, but nothing you can hear once you get your head out of the speaker cone.

J [/quote]

I could be wrong (I often am) but I find a similar benefit from having the cs strapped, I think the speakers see the op/transformer as being twice the resistance than in normal mode and hence better suited to 8 ohm´s ???
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #19 - 02/09/06 at 15:45:51
 
[quote author=Rap  link=1138077160/15#18 date=1139498353]

I could be wrong (I often am) but I find a similar benefit from having the cs strapped, I think the speakers see the op/transformer as being twice the resistance than in normal mode and hence better suited to 8 ohm´s ??? [/quote]

It makes sense.  You can't double power output without halfing a resistance/impedance somewhere.

J
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #20 - 02/09/06 at 16:42:18
 
[quote author=Jason_S  link=1138077160/15#19 date=1139499951]

It makes sense.  You can't double power output without halfing a resistance/impedance somewhere.

J [/quote]

Ah yes I ment to say halfing impedace (see I told you I might be wrong Smiley) slip of the finger. Thanks Jason
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« Last Edit: 02/09/06 at 16:42:44 by Rap »  
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #21 - 02/09/06 at 23:33:53
 
Smiley  that wasn't meant as a correction.  

Following the same theory tho, you should be able to strap an EX modded amp as long the load it sees is 16ohms or more.  If you series 2 8 ohm drivers, I wonder if you could take advantage of the phasing shifts with having series drivers in something like an MTM.

J
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #22 - 02/10/06 at 10:07:23
 
I thought that for a "true" MTM you´d have the impedance going the other way ??? like in the MG944. I think it would prove difficult to match a tweeter to the 16 ohm load with out using a XO ??? The slp would drop by 6 db in going from 4 ohm to 16 ohm for dual mid-woofers. Not a bad thing really as the benefits of reduction in current drive and distortion, and enhanced damping factor might more than out weigh the loss in spl. You should be able to drive the zen harder with less distortion and thus make up for some of the spl loss ??? This is an interesting project Jason Grin There would be some increase in bass handling but I think there might be some midrange loss Sad Maybe DD or Chris could shed some light on this approach ???
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« Last Edit: 02/10/06 at 10:42:14 by Rap »  
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #23 - 02/10/06 at 15:05:23
 
It seems the design goal of some speakers is to create an 'artifical' ambiance by introducing a multipoint source, or a time delay of some sort.  We all know about time aligning tweeters etc.  Ziggy was explaing one of his designs where he uses 2 identical drivers, except one without the wizzer cone.  The thought I had from that, is what would happen if you purposely time delayed one of them.  The same concept here is to make a 'bad' thing work for you.
Might work well if your using a bipolar design.
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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #24 - 02/10/06 at 15:53:13
 
[quote author=Rap  link=1138077160/15#22 date=1139566043]I thought that for a "true" MTM you´d have the impedance going the other way ??? like in the MG944. I think it would prove difficult to match a tweeter to the 16 ohm load with out using a XO ??? The slp would drop by 6 db in going from 4 ohm to 16 ohm for dual mid-woofers. Not a bad thing really as the benefits of reduction in current drive and distortion, and enhanced damping factor might more than out weigh the loss in spl. You should be able to drive the zen harder with less distortion and thus make up for some of the spl loss ??? This is an interesting project Jason Grin There would be some increase in bass handling but I think there might be some midrange loss Sad Maybe DD or Chris could shed some light on this approach ??? [/quote]
The biggest problem with using a series connection in an MTM is the phase shift that occurs when you connect 2 drivers in series. One of the plus factors with the design is that the closely spaced mid/bass drivers on each side of the tweet help to control it's dispersion, forcing more of the hi freq energy into a wider pattern, 90 degrees from the "column" regardless of the tweet's unsupported pattern. The phase shift between the low drivers will cause a certain degree of smear to the hi freqs. Unfortunately, any lack of focus in the hi freqs is very noticeable.

I can't speak about Zen amps, but I would do whatever it takes to put all MTM drivers in parallel. If your amp can drive the impedance, you are much better off with that arrangement.
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #25 - 02/10/06 at 17:27:02
 
That´s what I thought ??? Parallel = 4 ohm for 2 8 ohm speakers. Thanks DD Grin That would meen that to get the phase right you would have to use a complex XO? So in theory a lot of the benefits of the Zen would be lost. Jason there is always line array instead  ???
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Jason_S
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #26 - 02/12/06 at 23:48:26
 
Actually, what I was really thinking of, was some of the old 16 ohm drivers.  An Zen EX is obviously an excellent choice, but strapped Zen Ex's might work well too.

J
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: Finishing HDT's
Reply #27 - 02/13/06 at 00:30:48
 
[quote author=Jason_S  link=1138077160/15#26 date=1139788106]Actually, what I was really thinking of, was some of the old 16 ohm drivers.  An Zen EX is obviously an excellent choice, but strapped Zen Ex's might work well too.

J [/quote]

I think it would Grin
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