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SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS (Read 26358 times)
brettjm
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #30 - 10/31/05 at 20:31:09
 
Sorry, I can't speak to the difference between the twited pair vs. what I did. Supposedly the lack of interaction between the negative and positive strands sounds less colored. Possibly more extended. But since I build this design from scratch, I couldn't do an A/B.

Just guessing, but I bet the difference is pretty minimal. And they are a pain in the arse to make Smiley

-Brett
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #31 - 10/31/05 at 21:38:19
 
hei mullman
i was looking at an olf thread and there was a picture of your modded SE84 that just could not get around, PLEASE tell us more

this is the thread

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=zen;action=display;num=111520...

i mean the cerafine, fine, but two atoms disappeared, what is that black cap next to the elna cerafine?

and also the configuration, ground wire seems going differently, to ground mains? and the power switch, i always tought if changig that would make a difference? can you tell us more about what you did?

francesco
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sargon
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #32 - 11/01/05 at 18:30:43
 
If you don't want DIY, I like the Alpha Sterling Interconnects. I haven't tried the active shielding version.  Very nice sounding.
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #33 - 11/02/05 at 12:43:53
 
a lot of response, that's nice

these are some of the questions that still did not receive an answer, any one has experience with those:

1 did anyone try to substitute the two atoms caps with black gate 47+47uf 500v? they are said to be spectacular, is it true?

2 coupling caps, it seems mundorf silver gold are the rage, any one tried them in a se84c/s?

3 and what about RCA plugs, power switch, speakers posts? what about an all silver Audio Note rca and speaker posts make over?  

4 ohhh what about the silver fuse? if it's worth paying for same good power cable (and it is! i have tried it diy cheap and with good results) might be the fuse has an influence too

soon I will open the new thread with some of the suggestions received, any other suggestions more then welcomed naturally

francesco
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #34 - 11/02/05 at 12:53:27
 
BIAS SWITCH

never use the bias switch, and always keep it in one position?

here it is a easy mod for you, read this thread: thxs to ludo

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=zen;action=display;num=112678...

francesco
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #35 - 11/02/05 at 12:57:13
 
P.S. on  BIAS SWITCH
i have seen a mod where the resistors seem to be bypassed by two Caps????? anyone knows anything about this? or am i ¤"¤%"% my brain Smiley


f
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selmerdave
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #36 - 11/02/05 at 15:37:20
 
2 Coupling Caps Mundorf Supremes are the rage TODAY, no doubt before long something else will be the rage.  A couple of years ago, Hovlands were the rage, it was all you would read about here.  Then Jensens were the rage, the unanimous choice.  Then it was teflon.  And now Mundorf.  So "the rage" varies, no doubt the Mundorfs are excellent but I would keep in mind that it is not absolute.

Dave
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #37 - 11/02/05 at 16:08:56
 
well said dave
any one has a link to a thread where these different caps are discussed compared whatever?

f
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formerlydecwarite
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #38 - 11/11/05 at 04:16:19
 
Moding, I've found is very personal.  For instance, there are those who love tone and others love timing, some listen more for the message others information, there are others who like the comfort that goes along with using expensive audiophile approved parts.   "Hey, I used the best part, right? It was very expensive!"  Of course audiophile parts have their place, the amp's circuit should be viewed as a unique whole.   The circuit itself is the prime mover not the parts.  The right parts combo is what you need and that might mean none or very little in the way of audiophile parts.  You have to listen.

I've experimented with the zen amp for literally 1000+ hours.  I tried all kinds of expensive and generic parts all over the amp.  The only audiophile approved parts that stayed were tantalum resistors in 2 spots.  Everything else is quality but fairly run of the mill stuff.  

The best circuit made by decware was the original "B", IMO.  It is different from the "C" you have in some pretty major ways.  If you like a "zen like" experience it is the one for you.  Very silent backrounds and perfect timing with very high res are its hallmarks.  You can find the circuit schematic in the kit building instructions area.  I use this circuit with some minor adjustments.  The decoupling resistor is 10k(like the "C") not 15K and the bias on the input tube (the 1.5k and 2.7k in parrellel which comes out to 960R) is more like 1.2K, I use no decoupling 4uf cap.  

Anyway there are other changes that were made when decware moved from the "B" to the "C" such as different power transformer and resistors.  The original "B" sounds very different from the "C"  Maybe something to look into.

Less is more.  The right combination of kinds of parts is the most important, where to use metal oxides, metal films, tantalums, electrolytics, polyester films, polypropylene, will win the day not the "brand".

Here's a quick tweak:  replace the (2) 2.7k bias resistors in parrellel with the 1.5k metal film resistors with metal oxide types.

Good luck and have fun!
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nubz69
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #39 - 11/17/05 at 23:26:51
 
I am curious to know if a css such as the one on Garry Pimm's site (http://home.pacifier.com/~gpimm/) would work in the zen select.  I also wonder if it would work in the CSP.  If so I think this would be a possible upgrade that would have a lot of bennifits.
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #40 - 12/04/05 at 16:03:23
 
by the way as promised this is the link to the best and convenient (i would not say cheap, but really amazingly priced when you compare to what they ask around) it is a all silver, single core, single crystal! (otherwise called occ silver) you can find in europe!

the gentleman selling the cable is i think one of the most honest and kind persons i ever met in the business, i have bought from him many times now, plain and simple nothing gets close to Heinz customer care ...


http://www.occ-silver.com/index.htm

the section for the silver wire is called Silverwire-Reinsilber


francesco
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #41 - 12/04/05 at 16:06:21
 
hei by the way someone does get close, or better definitely matche Heinz customer care, and you know who i am talking about right!!! Smiley


f
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Steve Deckert
Administrator
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2425
Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #42 - 12/08/05 at 04:43:31
 
[quote author=lightmaster  link=1130443165/30#33 date=1130935433]a lot of response, that's nice

these are some of the questions that still did not receive an answer, any one has experience with those:

1 did anyone try to substitute the two atoms caps with black gate 47+47uf 500v? they are said to be spectacular, is it true?

2 coupling caps, it seems mundorf silver gold are the rage, any one tried them in a se84c/s?

3 and what about RCA plugs, power switch, speakers posts? what about an all silver Audio Note rca and speaker posts make over?  

4 ohhh what about the silver fuse? if it's worth paying for same good power cable (and it is! i have tried it diy cheap and with good results) might be the fuse has an influence too

soon I will open the new thread with some of the suggestions received, any other suggestions more then welcomed naturally

francesco
[/quote]


Something that would make a larger difference/improvement then all of the above added together would simply be to use our DHC-1 silver/teflon power cord with it.  Would cost a lot less too.

http://decware.com/newsite/powercords.htm
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lightmaster
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #43 - 12/08/05 at 22:34:07
 
I don’t know you guys but whenever I visit the forums and look for what’s new I always make sure to check what two special guys have to say one is Steve and the other one is Eddie Smiley ; their post never go unread:-)

And when Steve acknowledges the existence of a thread with a contribution, its sure that I’ll get there to read it, needless to say this thread had hundreds of hits in two days so many of you think the same way don’t you  it’s always quite an honour (especially if it’s a thread that you started Smiley)

So I humbly offer my view on the subject of power mains conditioning power cords.

The power cord in my experience DOES make a difference, according to the power cord that difference might be marginal or significant.

Now from what I know there is no doubt that the power cord that Steve sells should actually make the difference it promises, although I haven’t tried Steve’s I have tried a few and the one that I am using now is based on the same design , I think?, of the one that you can buy assembled by mac.

The power cord from what I can see, AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG i am only judging from the picture, is based on a design similar to the one described in this article:


http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ttse.html


the “trick” is made by the selection of quality material, but MOSTLY, according to the article’s author from the braiding of the cable. Impressed by my first attempt at the design with some cheap cable I went all the way and made an all silver braided power cord with significant results (on the scale i would say 4).

Now two things, I am keen to think that a power conditioner is a MUST! Steve suggests the use of a power conditioner in several of his papers, somewhere he even suggests one model, I looked for it and was not available in Europe so dropped it (do you know where that subject was mentioned?) and still do not have one.

In the meanwhile I happened to stumble in this:

http://www.m5abv.com/4.html

bought the first one sceptically, but was “only” 30 pounds 50 dollars including Free shipping and 30 days money back guarantee.

When I got the filter in the power line of the amp I was mesmerised! It did indeed made a difference, and what a difference! (on the scale i would say 5.5 or 6) just read what others say about it and belive it! (bought a second one within a week for my dac, same results). NO MORE guys. Just try for yourself. 30 days money back on both steve’s power cord and the mains filter (or diy:-).

But I am still thinking what the power conditioner will do. At the very end all these seem to address the issue of clear power or not?)  you lucky ones in the states can have the power conditioner that steve suggested for around 70 dollars if I recall correctly.

So it seems life is good in audio paradise

Happy listening

francesco
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Corey
Ex Member



Re: SE84C/S ULTIMATE UPGRADE CONSENSUS
Reply #44 - 12/09/05 at 02:08:52
 
[quote author=Steve Deckert  link=1130443165/30#42 date=1134017011]


Something that would make a larger difference/improvement then all of the above added together would simply be to use our DHC-1 silver/teflon power cord with it.  Would cost a lot less too.

http://decware.com/newsite/powercords.htm [/quote]

Steve,

What has been your experience with adding the DHC-1 cord to the ZBox? Has it offered a large improvment in the sound as well?

Take care,

Corey

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