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wo or db in convertible? (Read 7600 times)
GRIMM
Ex Member



wo or db in convertible?
10/23/05 at 00:53:32
 
hi was wondering wich do you all think would work out better, 12" wo or 12" db for a convertible, the wo is practically the entire trunk, could this be a factor in performance?, any help is appreciated, also am i correct in the only difference in the wo in the hieght of the enclosure?
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gexter
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #1 - 10/23/05 at 01:15:25
 
The WO is for a 8 or an 10.
the average solution to a 12" has been add 2 " to the height.
I would gamble on the WO just because I like it better.
It has also been known to do well in SPL contests.
However I cannot give you an answer on which will be better than the other. Just what would be my choice.
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #2 - 10/23/05 at 05:59:38
 
thanks gex, i plan on building this soon, is it really difficult to build, it is my first build but i will have a little help, any suggestions?
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gexter
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #3 - 10/23/05 at 06:26:22
 
I like the WO personally and find it simpler than the DB and more forgiving. I have built HWK's DB's , wierd concepts of the Imperial and Imp SO.
I find the HWK the easiest and the WO a close second. Its just the way I plan stuff.  
I use glue and a air nailer.
A table saw is your friend, if you use a circular saw make a fence to run the saw along.
my next build is the WO32 10" and if I did not buy those plans I would have built a 12" WO
My application is a home in this case.

My biggest mistakes were my lack of attention to detail. Now I am cleaning up and putting more time and detail in future builds.
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #4 - 10/23/05 at 08:49:34
 
Hi Gexter, if the subs I am using require a vas of 2.0 do you know how much bracing I would have to ado, and by when steve says to "ado" bracing does this mean another layer to the baffle, or what?  Also, I have read here that in order for the WO to accomodate 12" the baffle will have to be angled back?  And will doing this change anything?  And if so, what?  Oh and does the sealed chamber need any polyfillor anything?,  Sorry if the questions bore you I am a complete beginner here, any help you can give me is really appreciated, oh, one last thing, when you change the 36" does the 24"  change as well?  Like 34 x 22?  or does the 24" stay constant?  Thanks again, you help is appreciated.
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #5 - 10/23/05 at 09:53:36
 
The original plans call for the 36" width dimension to remain the same while altering the depth and height to fit tight places or to accomodate different drivers. That seems easy enough, but many people have built the WO so many different ways and gotten good results that I think you just have to try it and see.

Right now, I'm building one for my bedroom movie system. My wife doesn't want to see, yet another subwoofer in our house at all, let alone in the bedroom. The 8" HWK worked very well, but has been evicted because it took up too much space, (I mean get real, here 8"  HWK, too big?  razzberry!) So, I'm building a WO type cabinet using 8 - 4" drivers that will hide under the bed. (I'M evicting HER box of shoes!) It will be 5.75"H x 3'D x 4'W and preliminary modeling in WinISD shows a good bump at 80HZ which is where most of the LFE happens in movies so I should be happy with that. Cheesy
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« Last Edit: 10/23/05 at 09:57:15 by DirtDawg »  
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gexter
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #6 - 10/23/05 at 15:11:34
 
Like DD said there has been many variations with success.
If you using 3/4 MDF and the plans, bracing is not used that often.
Unless of course your running some heavy power.
if you are using a 10 or a 12 I would stay with the full dimensions if possible. and its simple to add 2" because of the bigger driver. In your application I would not go any less if possible.
I had a short conversation with Steve, he told me that the 36x36 should have better results over the 24x36. But there can be many variables involved.
I believe the WO to be the best all around design in size and performance for house and car that decware has. The best part is its FREE!!
to be clear the depth is from the front of the horn to the back where the ( V )  is. Or thats how I remember it. and thats the 24 or 36 variation.
for future referance, if DD outright goes against what I say and the science to back it Go with him. He has more builds and years under his belt. I just have better ideas and I am much more creative.  ::) not to mention a much better sense of humour.  ;D
Do yoiu feel a draft in here? kinda windy?

Gex
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« Last Edit: 10/23/05 at 15:29:29 by gexter »  
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #7 - 10/23/05 at 16:14:23
 
[quote author=gexter  link=1130028812/0#6 date=1130076694]Do yoiu feel a draft in here? kinda windy?

Gex
[/quote]

It's a convertible, Dummy! Smiley
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gexter
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #8 - 10/23/05 at 16:41:51
 
ROTFL
shedding tears  
Gex
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #9 - 10/23/05 at 18:29:14
 
thanks alot guys, i have another question, does the wo have a top? all the pictures show all the inside, is this just for the sake of showibg the inner workings? and if it does have a top is it cut at all or is it an exact copy of the bottom?
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #10 - 10/23/05 at 18:49:15
 
hey guys, how would these subs be wired 2,4 or 8 ohm, i am using a 1200 watt 2 channel amp, any suggestions? i would not know the difference since this would be my first build, thanks again
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #11 - 10/23/05 at 18:53:05
 
[quote author=GRIMM  link=1130028812/0#9 date=1130088554]thanks alot guys, i have another question, does the wo have a top? all the pictures show all the inside, is this just for the sake of showibg the inner workings? and if it does have a top is it cut at all or is it an exact copy of the bottom? [/quote]

Hey, GRIMM,

Some of the pics show a WO32, which is a different box altogether, with a glass top as a fashion statement. I think that could be a little dangerous in a car. Some people don't use a top, instead they place the WO flat on a carpeted floor for better coupling to the room. I found this to be a mistake for my setup, while it might have made a better coupling to the floor, the sound was not as tight.
I built my WO cabs with a solid top, the same as the bottom, but it must be removable for driver access, so I put screws every 3" and a foam gasket between all the edges.
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #12 - 10/23/05 at 18:58:03
 
[quote author=GRIMM  link=1130028812/0#10 date=1130089755]hey guys, how would these subs be wired 2,4 or 8 ohm, i am using a 1200 watt 2 channel amp, any suggestions? i would not know the difference since this would be my first build, thanks again [/quote]

The wiring depends on your drivers and the amps impedance. What is the impedance of the driver you are using?
Are your drivers dual voice coil?
What is the minimum impedance the amp can handle?
Will you run the amp mono or stereo?
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #13 - 10/24/05 at 03:11:21
 
hi dirtdawg, thanks for the tips, the amp impedence?, i am not sure, the subs are dual voice coil, i do not know much about alot of these things but i will find out and let you know
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #14 - 10/24/05 at 04:05:19
 
hi there dirtdawg, i found out the sub nominal impedence is dual 4 ohm, does thia help?
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gexter
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #15 - 10/25/05 at 05:26:31
 
dual voice coil as each coil is 8 Ohms and in parallel total 4 Ohms per driver?  which is how the daytons are rated.

if ( if) your amp is a 4 Ohm amp that will monoblock and drive down to 2 Ohms life is good, really good. you take each driver and wire pos to pos and neg to neg at the driver.  so you have two seperate drivers at 4 Ohms.
now to make it easy to explain. attach  a speaker wire to the neg and the pos on each driver ( not each coil) and run the wires pos and neg to the terminals on the amp that monoblock. that take the 4 Ohm load to 2 Ohms.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW IF IT WILL DRIVE A 2 OHM LOAD!!!! or something may fry.

that is a nice senario but you have to know the capabilities of your stuff.

and I am lousy at explaining this stuff, when I do it its not a problem but to explain it correctly I suck.

Give DD some numbers on what  load your amp can handle and see if it is ( bridgeable/ monoblock) and be sure about your drivers and coils.

Gex

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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #16 - 10/25/05 at 06:46:19
 
HI GUYS, THANKS AGAIN, THE AMP IS BRIDGABLE. IS THIS GOOD? OR NOT GOOD? ALL OF YOUR HELP IS APPRECIATED, AND GEX I THINK YOU EXPLAIN THINGS PRETTY WELL YOU GUYS ARE A BIG HELP
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #17 - 10/25/05 at 06:56:01
 
HI GUYS, I JUST READ THIS ABOUT THE SUB, DUAL HIGH TEMPERATURE VOICE COIL RUN 2,4 OR 8 OHM  IN MONOBLOCK OR STEREO, I AM NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THIS MEANS DOES THIS HELP?
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #18 - 10/25/05 at 07:44:43
 
hi guys, this is what i found on the amp, the brand is sounxtreme?, i got talked  into it but i  am going to try and make it work, i am hoping the wo will make up for the amp and subs,  thanks for any help,  
1200W x 1 Bridged (4 Ohm)  
PWM MOSFET POWER SUPPLY
BASS & TREBLE CONTROL SEPARATELY
CROSSOVER NETWORK ADJUSTABLE
HIGH SPEED MOSFET OUTPUT DEVICES
CLASS AB
LOW LEVEL INPUTS
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #19 - 10/25/05 at 08:57:36
 
hey dirtdawg, thanks alot for the info on the top, i di not understand  it, thanks
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #20 - 10/25/05 at 10:58:19
 
A little background Copied from CarStereo.com


Dual Voice Coil Subwoofers

Dual voice coil subwoofers are becoming a popular choice among car audio enthusiasts who want more flexibility in wiring their sound systems. While typical subwoofers have a single voice coil, dual voice coil (DVC) subwoofers use two separate voice coils, each with its own connections, mounted on one cylinder, connected to a common cone.

The key difference between single and dual voice coil subwoofers is the multiple wiring options DVC subs offer:
Parallel: A dual 4-ohm voice coil subwoofer with its coils wired in parallel presents a 2-ohm load to your amplifier. Since an amplifier produces more wattage at a lower impedance, the parallel connection ensures you'll get the most output from your amp. In the same fashion, if you have a stereo amplifier and two DVC subs, wire both subs for 2-ohm impedance (one per channel) for maximum output.


Series: Series wiring lets you configure multiple woofers to one amplifier at an acceptable impedance. Wire both coils in series for an 8-ohm impedance, and then wire two 8-ohm subs together in parallel for 4-ohm total impedance (perfect for most 2-channel amps bridged to mono operation). Another example: if you have a high-powered 2-channel amplifier, wire four 8-ohm subs per channel (each channel sees a 2-ohm load).


Independent: You can wire each voice coil to a separate channel of your amplifier, if you prefer not to bridge your amp. Independent wiring is a nice option if you're wiring two DVC subs to a 4-channel amplifier — one voice coil per channel.


A DVC sub offers the same performance whether it's wired in series or parallel. Its power handling levels, frequency response, and other specifications do not change — the only difference is the impedance presented to the amplifier. As a result, you'll use the enclosure that's recommended for your sub, no matter how it's wired.  


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« Last Edit: 10/25/05 at 11:11:52 by DirtDawg »  
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #21 - 10/25/05 at 11:02:34
 
Here's a picture




Loads of great info here.


Set your amp to mono mode and connect your speakers like the pic. Keep your cables as short as possible. Enjoy.
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« Last Edit: 10/25/05 at 17:10:55 by DirtDawg »  
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #22 - 10/25/05 at 14:56:11
 
HI DIRTDAWG, THIS IS VERY VERY HELPFUL, SO WOULD YOU SUGGEDT WIRING LIKE THE EXAMPLE OF THE 4OHM LOAD?, THIS SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR, THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP
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DirtDawg
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #23 - 10/25/05 at 17:11:59
 
Grin
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #24 - 10/25/05 at 19:10:02
 
very cool dirtdawg, very cool, it is appreciated, i am looking forward to building the wo, i hope it is as good as everyone says, thanks so much for your halp
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GRIMM
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #25 - 10/25/05 at 21:18:19
 
HI GUYS, I JUST READ THE FRONT OF THE AMP AND IT READ "STABLE AT 2 OHM", GEX YOU HAD SAID THIS WAS GOOD?
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J_Rock
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #26 - 10/26/05 at 21:34:47
 
not so good if your amp is mono.

If your amp has two channels hook up both channels like this:

channel Pos. -----+----+ (positives)
                    (SUBWOOFER1)
channel Neg. -----=----= (negatives)

if its Mono, exactly like the pic Dawg posted, with each main wire going to the + and - labeled "Bridged" on your amp.
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gexter
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #27 - 10/26/05 at 23:01:47
 
SO now we need to know it means it will run 2 Ohms on each channel or the bridged channel.
But the later is unlikely so go for what DD and J-rock are talkin about. You will be safe for sure and your amp will last longer.
Its prob talkin about 1200 watt bridged into 4 Ohms which is exact what they are talkin about.

Where are we at now?

Gex


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jj420
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #28 - 10/27/05 at 01:28:09
 
Id run the amp at 4x300 into 4 ohms, that way youd get the best of both worlds, both coils, and longer amplifier life.  Its a WO so, youll need four channels of amplification to power all four coils.  The coils are 4Ohms apeaice, so youd actually want 4x300 if your amp can do 4 channels, if not, then 2x1200 into a 2Ohm load or 2x300 into an 8Ohm load.  The extended reasoning is below, but the short answer is, go with the 8 ohm load first, if thats not loud enough, then try only wiring one coil on each driver for a 4ohm load as i suggested at first, if thats STILL not loud enough (not likely) then you can rewire the coils to yeild 2 Ohms and run 2x1200 and plan on buying a new amp sooner rather than later, id really hesitate to run the amp into a 2ohm load, even if it says stable, they dont say for how long, and thats likely on a test bench with nitrogen cooling, test tones and vibration dampening, in a car, at 110kph on the highway, its a different story.

Manufacturers are not legally required to post notices of the effects of the different ways you can run them.  Generally, if the amp is rated into 4 ohms, thats where your want to run it to maintain the duty cycle, you could wire the drivers to make 8 ohms, lose a mere 3db and actually extend the life of the amplifier, if its a cheap job, then you might even get improved sound from the increased headroom, as 8ohms would likey be around 400W max output for the amp, but it would run MUCH cooler, this is good, as class a amps run HOT, and AB isnt far behind.  The point is, higher impedance = lower power, except half the power is only 3db less, barely perceptible, anyways lower power = cooler amp, cooler amp = cleaner, longer lived amp.

bridging an amp makes it run double hot, while 2400X1 into 2Ohms would be loud, your amp would likely die off quickly, especially if it was a bargain.  Then theres the added effect of power compression when the coils heat up.  With high power levels, the coils really do get HOT, and when they do that any subsequent power goes to heating them further, not moving the cone.  This is the reason pro subs for SPL class competition use 4 or even eight voicecoils per driver, to get higher output because of cooler coils.

The WO presents the additional effect of controlling the woofer from both sides, like a BP4 box.  This changes the rated power handling of the drivers, as well as the impedance curve, it is an easier box to power, and not "picky" however, you will need a high RMS because of the load presented by the box.  In your case thats not likely to be an issue, unless that amp is grossly overrated...

If you plan on trying the 2400W configuration in your car, then remeber to use 2ga. or lower wire for the power and ground cables, otherwise youll get filaments instead of wires when the bass hits, skinny wires on the power and ground are one of the leading causes of crappy-systemitis, speaker wires dont need to be thick, theres little current, but 2400W would be like HUGE current, read the DC/DC primer at jaycar electronics website to see for yourself.

build on!
(pics)
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jj420
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Re: wo or db in convertible?
Reply #29 - 10/27/05 at 01:29:30
 
holy wordy! geez i got carried away....

i guess im too passionate about BASS
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