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Cerwin-Vega V-max's? (Read 9208 times)
djdj
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #15 - 10/16/05 at 17:31:40
 
How much would I be losing if I just built my (pre-imperial knowledge) standard dual 15" subwoofer boxes? I have a gig Oct 24th and need bass!!!
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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #16 - 10/16/05 at 19:50:37
 
Say above 80Hz or so, not much as long as the box is big enough for the 15s to move easily. It's below that range where the difference is going to be most noticeable, since that's where most of the Imperial's horn loading benefit happens. Guessing, since many, many years have past since I last heard one, I would say 6 or 8 dB in the bottom octave over a large BR cab. Maybe one of the guys who has a pair can put some measurement figures down for you. If I had a job in a week I'd go with what I know and build the Imperials next week.
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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #17 - 10/16/05 at 20:23:43
 
Gex,

The way I interpret the SO info available to us, (could be all wrong?) the Decware Imperial design has been reworked to extend the response flat to 20Hz for the absolute best in audiophile low end. That may not translate to being better for commercial PA use, since response in that lower octave is not "free". Something had to give to accomplish that extension in response.
My concern is that the "something" might make it an undesirable compromise for PA use, especially considering below 30Hz response is not usually needed to "feel the bass". Maximizing 30Hz to 80Hz would be more desirable for a KICK A55 PA. Grin
That's what the Imperial has already been doing since the '50s and I'm all for 'em! Cheesy
I've been known to use a "sub sub" before and if there is no compromise, then an Imperial going down to 30Hz crossed over to a Sub Only below that would be extreme!
I will step aside now and bow down before DanK and wait for him to speak.
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« Last Edit: 10/16/05 at 20:37:51 by DirtDawg »  
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #18 - 10/17/05 at 03:42:19
 
Yep I am really interested what Dank has to say. I am all ears so to speak....  :)
You know if I build another garage in the back I could fit   Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

djdj-  car subs would work in a SO better than a Std Imp because of there intended use.
But I don't think a SO is your answer. I wonder why a full range Imperial can't work for you. You could always add a Imperial sub after. your getting pretty high quality sound with both.

I think if I had a "gig" I and I wanted to move a substantial sound wave I would use an  decware Imperial sub.
I think it would serve the purpose better than a SO. You want punch and thats what DD's talking about.
I have not built a full size Imperial the 63" high one but I would think that a Well built full size with a single 18 and horn would do  the job.
if a a sub is needed a decware Imperial with dual 15'
I am sorry that it has come down to the wire for you in time, and if I was using a car sub for PA I would build a Bass reflex box tuned like DD mentioned. that would be fast and easy.
there is always the next "gig".
then build them and ( test them) with time to spare

I think a car sub in a horn will work but how well so you need it to work?

I sadly only have a opinion on this

DD-The Imperial SO would not be my choice for PA use. My little obsession with it and a version of what I think it is does not at all lend itself to PA use.
my building spree has come to an end with the exception of a WO32 in the next couple months.
I just don't have the room to dedicate to the Imperials which I really want to mess with.

Good luck djdj.
I guess you did not get the answers you needed in time.
But hey! theres always tommorrow. Smiley
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stvcmty
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #19 - 10/17/05 at 03:59:34
 
Car subs work fine in a regular imperial, I am using one in mine, and it shakes the house.

The only issue with car subs might be the surround, but in the thread “Foam Cloth or Paper Surround” http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=diy;action=display;num=112085... the worries about a car sub having a foam surround were abated.

If the sub has decent [believable] power handling, it should work in the imperial.  The Decware modified imperial was designed to work with almost any speaker.

All the speaker really has to do is load the horn.   The large volume of the compression chamber mates almost any speaker well to the horn.  Even if the front radiation sounds bad, the horn sound will overpower it.

Along the same lines, the volume of air in the horn makes cone movement well controlled, despite the “ported” compression chamber, down to about 30Hz.  The combination of the large compression chamber and the volume of air in the horn keep the cone well dampened, allowing for fast low mids and mids from the front radiation.  [Which is why I have good luck with somewhat high QTS drivers in the imperial.]

Stv
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #20 - 10/17/05 at 05:10:09
 
there ya go!
see all you need is someone who has tried it to know for sure.
I do know a car sub works because I have one in my modified sub corner cab.
I do know that it is not ideal because some drivers work better in enclosures that they are designed for.

thanks  stvcmty I know you have put the time in on these things. I would go with your assessement
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dank
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #21 - 10/17/05 at 14:12:38
 
Here's how far I got this weekend on the Imperial SO:
http://www.mninter.net/~kuechle/imp13.jpg

(thats the lower right corner of a standard Imperial in the left side of the picture).  I think my front slot cutout might be a little off as all I have to work with are pictures I took at Decfest 2005 and I built a router jij with my classic mistake:  cutting on the wrong side of the router bit.  But rather than re-doing it, I thought I'd try it...that panel has to be removeable anyway to get at the speaker...who known, it might work better with that shape.  

I talked to Ziggy (the guy who builds the speaker cabinets for Decware) at Decfest.  He indicated that 22 hours were what an Imperial build took.  Well, my hat is off to you Ziggy, so far it looks like my build time will be around 80 hours.
 
Hopefully I will have the first Imperial SO playing music in another day or two and the 2nd Imperial SO following in about a week.  Then I'll have more pictures and let everyone know how they compare to the "Imperial Classic".

DanK
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #22 - 10/17/05 at 15:10:46
 
We thank you. and really nice work! Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

80 hours? Wow thats alot of time. The next one will be faster.
Ziggy likely uses nicer equipment than most of us do.

EDIT: well better than me anyway. I have not seen much of your shop but looks like your well equiped.
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« Last Edit: 10/17/05 at 15:15:02 by gexter »  
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djdj
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #23 - 10/17/05 at 19:13:29
 
Thanks everyone for your time and knowledge again! I am new to this concept and wasnt aware that the 2nd driver in the Imperial was a mid not a sub. Which was why I was asking; Why don't you just use 2 subs in that box? Also I didn't understand how 2 wooferes were making full range sound. And that you put the tweeter on top. I don't mind putting the time into an Imperial box but I just want to know it will sound good for my party gigs and a few bars. If I use the Imperial with Cerwin-Vega V-max's, what would I use for the 2nd speaker in there???
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stvcmty
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #24 - 10/17/05 at 20:18:30
 
For a non-sub woofer for the mismatched speaker pair for an imperial, a good bet is a peavey scorpion:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-313

They work well in an imperial.  The scorpion is reasonably priced, and has good power handling for PA use.

If that is too expensive for you, you could use a GW1558.  http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-384
The specs for the 1558 don’t make it look good for horn loading, but it has worked well for me.  Its power handling is not quite as impressive which might be a vote against it for DJ use.  380 watts max is not bad, it is just a bit low.

A tricky part will be the crossover for the tweeter, but getting the cabinet built is a larger concern than the crossover.

Stv
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dank
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #25 - 10/17/05 at 20:39:25
 
[quote author=djdj  link=1129093914/15#15 date=1129480300]How much would I be losing if I just built my (pre-imperial knowledge) standard dual 15" subwoofer boxes? I have a gig Oct 24th and need bass!!! [/quote]

djdj
Heres a weird answer for you...you could build a pair of ported dual 15 Imperial compression chambers following the DecWare Imperial plans.  They ought to work as well as any other ported dual 15 box.  Later you could add the rest of the Imperial.  The front baffle board might give you problems because it sticks down a couple inches and becomes the front of the Imperial...you might need to add some wedge shaped stands for the compression chamber to sit on.  If you decide to do the Imperial SO later, the braces are cut down an inch or two and a different baffle board is put on.  

You do realize that a plywood Imperial is in the 250 pound range, right?  MDF Imperial would be about 1.5 times heavier.  My plywood Imperial SO compression chamber that I just finisted weighs 82 pounds and I have a 32 pound driver to put in it.

DanK
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #26 - 10/18/05 at 01:16:29
 
I Hope Dan K is nice enough to invite em to see his Imp SO when they are done! He let me see his imperials before.

And if he does,  :D Smiley Wink Grin
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djdj
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #27 - 10/18/05 at 03:14:43
 
I'm thinking 2 Imperial SO boxes with 15" V-max's. How much more would I notice over the standard dual-15" box?
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bnew63
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #28 - 10/23/05 at 21:26:19
 
I am using an Imperial with two 15's as a sub in a building that is 20x30 by 16' tall.I have a 250 watt sub amp which does not usally get turn up past halfway on the volume dial.
I have had reports of the bass being heard three houses away and I live in an area with 2-5 acre yards and alot of trees in between.
Now I realise people are searching for the ultimate BASS (myself included)but sometimes I wonder if we go beyond what we really need for good sound.My one Imperial will put out more bass than I will ever need.It is the most defined and relaxed sub I have made yet!!
I'd love to hear an objective comparison between the SO and the imperial
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« Last Edit: 10/23/05 at 21:35:26 by bnew63 »  
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Cerwin-Vega V-max's?
Reply #29 - 10/24/05 at 02:26:32
 
[quote author=bnew63  link=1129093914/15#28 date=1130099179]  
I'd love to hear an objective comparison between the SO and the imperial [/quote]

Its all up to Dank right now. until the plans are released anyway.
Its all academic to me now because unless I build an addition I will not be building any more Imperials SO or other wise.

Gex


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