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another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers (Read 7128 times)
gexter
Ex Member



another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
08/09/05 at 22:52:23
 
with Circlomanens idea I also built a 5 1/4 WO The sub has reinforced sealed chambers with dacron fill as well as a small amount of dacron in the first fold of the horn. speakers fire into the sealed chamber mounted in the first fold. built with 5/6,1/2, 3/4 plywood scraps and two 1/4 inch hardboard panels.( thats why the reinforced sealed chamber) measures 24 x 24 x 6.5 and does not have Circlomanens horn design right now.
I have a ads power plate sub in my car, it is only two 6.5 subs as an infinite baffle. it plays amazingly low. the woofers I used are old coustics that I pulled out of the front doors because they did'nt have enough jam and I upgraded.
I put the scaled WO in, same amp setting and crossover. Crossed at 80 hz
results were:
- takes a whole lot more power without distorting ( I mean a whole lot)
- mid bass heavy but pretty smooth for the hz.
-Not anywhere as pleasant as my ADS or as low but with enough  watts, more than my ADS can take it rattles everything that never rattled or resonated before.
-Freaking loud with so little power compared to my ADS sub
- i think it does play reasonably low but can only do it at a level cannot be tolerated in the car. I put my hearing protectors on and cranked it and it can really kick. rattles me and the car.
never needed that much power because the car is so quiet and insulated.
- I am amazed that speakers that hardly put out any sound volume are so loud in the WO with so little power
-BOTTOM Line is:
- very loud for the amount of power put into it and speakers take more power than they ever could before when in the WO
-I Don't like the way it sounds, not low enough and not as smooth as my little ADS plate sub
-I would not use it in a car, has to be to loud to kick you in the seat of the pants
- It will be used as a pc sub or a patio sub and could try crossing it over lower maybe at a later date.
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« Last Edit: 08/09/05 at 22:55:38 by gexter »  
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DirtDawg
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Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #1 - 08/10/05 at 01:37:09
 
Hey gex,
I was hoping to catch you before you gave up today when I noticed you had already thought of my suggestion of lowering the XO. Hope you try that next. If you are capable try even 40Hz or lower. If you have an enormous peak at 80Hz, say a 12dB peak, then cross over at 40Hz at 12 dB/octave, should help smooth it out a lot. Only concern would be how quickly the lower response falls below your massive peak.
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #2 - 08/10/05 at 02:14:52
 
still slapped together but it will be a while before I will polish it up so here are three pics

Pictures removed
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« Last Edit: 08/31/05 at 10:38:07 by gexter »  
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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #3 - 08/10/05 at 03:20:21
 
COOL gex!

A couple of thoughts pop up right away...Do the top and bottom panels flex while it's working? That could be a source of mid bass "stuff" causing a peak. Also do you remember what I did to the port area on mine?  I doubled the panel that creates the port and the first flare. This will lenghthen the port, take some space inside that chamber, and stop any vibration in that area. That alone seemed to lower the WO's voice a lot.

I've read several times - "mess with the design and you're on your own"
While that may be true there are many of us who can't do it but we still want to watch so keep us posted.
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« Last Edit: 08/10/05 at 03:24:07 by DirtDawg »  
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #4 - 08/10/05 at 05:08:20
 
[quote author=DirtDawg  link=1123627943/0#5 date=1123640421]COOL gex!

Also do you remember what I did to the port area on mine?  I doubled the panel that creates the port and the first flare. This will lenghthen the port, take some space inside that chamber, and stop any vibration in that area. That alone seemed to lower the WO's voice a lot.

I've read several times - "mess with the design and you're on your own"
While that may be true there are many of us who can't do it but we still want to watch so keep us posted.
[/quote]

Hmm have to consider that port adjustment, and the crossover point but the lowest I can go is 60hz.
Mess with the design? well I run with what I brung. At present most of the stuff is out of parts laying around. The long term goal is a nice set of speakers and a nasty low sub that'll put cracks in the plaster without sounding loud at all.
But who knows when that will happen so I may as well play for now  :)
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« Last Edit: 08/10/05 at 05:09:05 by gexter »  
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Circlomanen
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Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #5 - 08/10/05 at 12:25:21
 
Real nice WO Gex!
Mine is a bit midbassheavy too but I built a small electronic XO and compensation circuit. Its a first order lowpass crossing over at 30 hz and than a second order lowpass at 120 hz. The first lowpass just compensated for the 80-120 hz peak and gave my little WO some weight and slam. It did sound very good without it but its always fun with a bit more weight. Its sounds more powerfull.

Nice pics! Do you have any pics from the inside of the box?

SmileyJohannes.
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Circlomanen
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Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #6 - 08/10/05 at 20:05:48
 
How wide is the throat ?
If the throat is to wide it will play a lot more midbass and not any real deep stuff.
First time I tried mine it had 1,5 inch wide throat. Id did not play anything below 60 hz. Once i made it smaller, 4/5 inch, it did hit 35 hz and sounded way better.
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #7 - 08/11/05 at 14:21:56
 
you built an active crossover ? All i can do is passive design.

I can pull the lid off because it is not completely finished yet but the inside sucks. jagged old wood and odd ball sizes and modified design.
Yes my throat is likely way too big!
You take a look at it and I will try your recomendations. I just can't post it right away
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60ndown
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Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #8 - 08/11/05 at 18:19:32
 
[quote author=gexter  link=1123627943/0#0 date=1123624343] with Circlomanens idea I also built a 5 1/4 WO The sub has reinforced sealed chambers with dacron fill as well as a small amount of dacron in the first fold of the horn. speakers fire into the sealed chamber mounted in the first fold. built with 5/6,1/2, 3/4 plywood scraps and two 1/4 inch hardboard panels.( thats why the reinforced sealed chamber) measures 24 x 24 x 6.5 and does not have Circlomanens horn design right now.
I have a ads power plate sub in my car, it is only two 6.5 subs as an infinite baffle. it plays amazingly low. the woofers I used are old coustics that I pulled out of the front doors because they did'nt have enough jam and I upgraded.
I put the scaled WO in, same amp setting and crossover. Crossed at 80 hz
results were:
- takes a whole lot more power without distorting ( I mean a whole lot)
- mid bass heavy but pretty smooth for the hz.
-Not anywhere as pleasant as my ADS or as low but with enough  watts, more than my ADS can take it rattles everything that never rattled or resonated before.
-Freaking loud with so little power compared to my ADS sub
- i think it does play reasonably low but can only do it at a level cannot be tolerated in the car. I put my hearing protectors on and cranked it and it can really kick. rattles me and the car.
never needed that much power because the car is so quiet and insulated.
- I am amazed that speakers that hardly put out any sound volume are so loud in the WO with so little power
-BOTTOM Line is:
- very loud for the amount of power put into it and speakers take more power than they ever could before when in the WO
-I Don't like the way it sounds, not low enough and not as smooth as my little ADS plate sub
-I would not use it in a car, has to be to loud to kick you in the seat of the pants
- It will be used as a pc sub or a patio sub and could try crossing it over lower maybe at a later date. [/quote]

did you try it faceing backwards? or any other orientations? my wo32 sounds like nothing till i get it positioned right-then it sounds like everything?
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #9 - 08/13/05 at 06:36:40
 
thanks for the input guys.
I am going to narrow the throat suggested by dirtdawg by using Circlomanen horn design.
I am also going to use the type of hardboard that has a rough paper type  surface to slow and absorb high frequency sounds.
I did play around with placement as a Ht sub and car sub but perhaps not as much as other projects.

It's partly dismantled presently laying up against my 8"HWK  in a dark corner of my garage. Only two of my projects lay around.


Can't get the Imp SO out of my head.  :'(  :'(  :'(
I wish I never found this forum! I was over my bass and audio additions until I came here.

later
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« Last Edit: 08/14/05 at 06:21:11 by gexter »  
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #10 - 08/25/05 at 05:52:37
 
Update on the little sub Wo
 
rough edtion One before I made changes

http://tinypic.com/awvvcj.jpg

rough 2 with the flare not completely done but you get the idea

http://tinypic.com/awvx1y.jpg
this pic is of it not quite done.
this one the flare was added and completed and the throat was narrowed. some more damping was added.
the result was a lower sound and not as annoying and the thin top and bottom are a no no. they create substantial resonance, I have no Idea why I thought I was going to get away with it or what I was thinking.
I went and got a cheap MA crossover and took it down to 45 Hz and turned the ( Whoo so cool ) [bass boost on].
It made a huge differance with the lower crossover point.
I think I am going to narrow the throat more and remove some of the damping that was added in the chamber before the horn.
I will keep playing with it to see what works and what does not over the next couple months.
thanks for all the ideas most of them have been tried and tested  the box is getting really ugly but nothing glue and a air nailer can't fix.

Still stuck on the Imperial SO and have that pretty much figured out, But I still want the plans to be sure.

likely I will build a 8" WO before I build the Imperial SO because I already have the stuff for it. kinda wish I had the money for Steves 10" to build it the ideal way, But thats life.
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rock4016
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #11 - 08/25/05 at 18:49:48
 
Have you tried flipping the drivers around so the magnets are in the sealed portion?
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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #12 - 08/25/05 at 21:00:13
 
.........mmmmmmmmmmmmm, what would I have gexter do?  

Hey gex if your taking requests, I've got one for you.

Cut 4 boards the inside height of your cab. Two of them 2" or 3" and two the same as the port/throat panel. Place them inside the ported chamber a distance equal to the first of your flare away from the port panel, try the 3" boards first and if that stops bad things, try the full size ones and trim if needed.
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #13 - 08/25/05 at 21:07:04
 
thanks guys
My son adopted the little WO for a bit to augment his PC speakers that are getting fed from the ipod.
I removed the  top and laid it down.
His Zone is our holiday trailer where he and his friends hang out.
I am leaving the thing firing into the floor, gives the feet a good massage.
I have to play with it when he is done.
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DirtDawg
Ex Member



Re: another scaled WO w/ 2- 5 1/4 car woofers
Reply #14 - 08/25/05 at 21:19:58
 
My thinking is that the box is still tuned too high and anything you can do to choke down the port a little without destroying the smoothness would be beneficial. I hope that makes sense without another drawing.
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« Last Edit: 08/25/05 at 21:22:28 by DirtDawg »  
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