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DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS ! (Read 55763 times)
Nievate
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #30 - 04/16/05 at 21:51:39
 
Hi erimille,

This is an opinion from a old/less than perfect ear.  I have heard the corner horns and feel that they should top your list of DYI speaker projects.

That is if you have the room for them and the corners in that room.

If it were me and I had a large enough room I would go with the false corner plan and place the units at least six to ten feet forward/away from the front wall.  This would give you the deep sound stage that Steve has in his listening room.

Food for thought.

dennis
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erimille
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #31 - 04/19/05 at 01:09:02
 
[quote author=Nievate  link=1112743937/30#30 date=1113684699]Hi erimille,

This is an opinion from a old/less than perfect ear.  I have heard the corner horns and feel that they should top your list of DYI speaker projects.

That is if you have the room for them and the corners in that room. [/quote]

Thanks Dennis, your feedback is much appreciated.  I have the corners, but the not sure about the room dimensions. The room is approx 20'(l) x 16'(w) x 10'(h) - the corners I have availiable are along the length.

Steve, quick scans of the plans, and I have a couple questions re "When built by human hands even a 1/2 degree mistake on one angle can multiply itself throughout the angles of the design into a serious problem.". This, coupled with the desire never to paint wood....

- Are you sure the angles are 23 deg? and not 22.5 deg? (360 / 16 = 22.5)

- 3/4" plywood... never seen such a beast. Most plywood is 23/32". Can you clarify the specifics of what you where using? Plywood, Baltic plywood? MDF?

And a few more general questions re these speakers...

- these seem *far* more specialized to the room than other speakers (more specifically HDTs).  Can you confirm? I'm converned that the acoustics currently in the room are minimal and wondering how sensitive the horns are to the room's condition.

- Can you elaborate on, "The ideal situation for these speakers is to place them in the corners on either side of a large opening to an adjoining room."?  Is one asking for trouble to simply put these in corners of a large room?

- Re  "We recommend the Fostex FE167 full range driver for this cabinet as our ideal choice for lower powered amplifiers." , ay ideas how this might sounds with a Zen Select (and Select with CSP?)

- The 'sails' seem a bit tricky... any additional pictures?

--eric

ps: thanks in advance.



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« Last Edit: 04/19/05 at 01:12:07 by erimille »  
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soulintention
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #32 - 04/19/05 at 06:51:56
 
[quote author=Nievate If it were me and I had a large enough room I would go with the false corner plan and place the units at least six to ten feet forward/away from the front wall.  This would give you the deep sound stage that Steve has in his listening room.

are there any specs available on the false corner plan requirements?

gratitude  :)
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Nievate
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #33 - 04/19/05 at 12:32:03
 
Welcome Soulintention,

I sent you a PM with my understanding of this issue.


dennis
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2406
Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #34 - 04/24/05 at 15:00:01
 
[quote author=erimille  link=1112743937/30#31 date=1113869342]



- Are you sure the angles are 23 deg? and not 22.5 deg? (360 / 16 = 22.5)

- 3/4" plywood... never seen such a beast. Most plywood is 23/32". Can you clarify the specifics of what you where using? Plywood, Baltic plywood? MDF?

And a few more general questions re these speakers...

- these seem *far* more specialized to the room than other speakers (more specifically HDTs).  Can you confirm? I'm converned that the acoustics currently in the room are minimal and wondering how sensitive the horns are to the room's condition.

- Can you elaborate on, "The ideal situation for these speakers is to place them in the corners on either side of a large opening to an adjoining room."?  Is one asking for trouble to simply put these in corners of a large room?

- Re  "We recommend the Fostex FE167 full range driver for this cabinet as our ideal choice for lower powered amplifiers." , ay ideas how this might sounds with a Zen Select (and Select with CSP?)

- The 'sails' seem a bit tricky... any additional pictures?

--eric

ps: thanks in advance.



[/quote]

No I'm not sure what the angles will be - 23 or 22.5 degrees.  This is a cabinet that you will have to find the angles as you go.  The angles will be determined by the accuracy of your layout.

3/4 plywood is not 3/4 inches - actual thickness of different materials also vary slightly.  Of course actual thickness effects all your measurments.  This is why an actual template is provided for you to lay out your cabinet.  I have used MDF and birch plywood.  The cabinet is not a "live" cabinet where the type of wood used will greatly effect it's sound.  You can make it from whatever you like.

Well, they eliminate the bass issue in two corners, but other then that they are affected by the rooms dimensions and acoustics just like any other speaker.

If you simply put these into the corners you will have no more depth to the soundstage then any other speakers placed in the corners.  Plus keep in mind that the farther apart they are the farther you will sit back to stay on axis.  

Yea, it sounds great. No problems.

The sails (or wings) are a bit tricky.  If you laid out your cabinet square and true and perfectly centered the template you make for the first wing should also fit the remaining three.

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nubz69
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Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #35 - 04/25/05 at 05:09:47
 
Could the parker 98 drivers possibly be utilized in these enclosures?
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JLM
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #36 - 05/11/05 at 21:42:10
 
This sounds like a job for Ziggy!

Perhaps pre-cut panelized kits.  Hopefully the baffle could be removable to accommodate driver changeouts.

Steve, have you thought about a slightly larger version for deeper bass response (one that would still fit through a 36 inch door)?

If you simply place them in the corners you'd lose any depth of soundstage.

The easiest way to provide depth would be to build these into the side walls of the room with open shelving above, wing wall behind, and a grill cover.
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serenechaos
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #37 - 05/11/05 at 23:29:20
 
These are quite a bit more complex than HDTs, etc. and are hand fit.  It would be REALLY difficult to build as a knock down kit w/o cutting on a CNC machine.  

Yes, the front baffle is removable to easily experiment with different drivers in front, or use a solid baffle with no drivers in front, and four drivers inside (front load instead of back load).   Wink

Smiley
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« Last Edit: 05/13/05 at 08:59:45 by serenechaos »  
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chrisby
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #38 - 05/13/05 at 19:15:09
 
[quote author=serenechaos  link=1112743937/30#37 date=1115850560]These are quite a bit more complex than HDTs, etc. and are hand fit.  It would be REALLY difficult to build as a knock down kit w/o cutting on a CNC machine.  


Smiley [/quote]


Actually, I think it would require a 5-axis CNC machine* and carefull 3-D program code to execute the changing angle of the inside curve of the final flare "sail" panels ( W,X, etc).  

*these are not quite as common as the "big routers", and machine time for a small production run would be quite costly.

If this design was ever to migrate to commercial production, it would probably make more sense to build KD assembly in cast fibreglass.

Custom colorscheme and pinstriping by Chip Foose, please, with replaceable front bafflles by the zigster

"hi, my name is chris, and my hi-fi's been  Overhauled "
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zinker
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #39 - 05/13/05 at 22:08:16
 
I think if one was to go into production the design could be tweaked to make it easier. Remember, Steve designed these to fit his needs with the tools he had on hand. I'm  not discrediting him, I am just saying there are lots of ways to skin the cat and still come out with the same results. No doubt if he were to go into production the parts would change. Im sure Ziggy has plenty of ideas already.And knowing what I know about Steve's work, the product would probably improve! Smiley
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JLM
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #40 - 05/17/05 at 11:01:55
 
Hard to compare the corner horns to the HDTs as the corner horns are in Steve's custom listening room that was, to some degree, built around/with these speakers in mind.  At the 2003 Decfest we heard them and the HDTs (with still fresh drivers).  The horns in his listening room, the HDTs in his garage, hardly a fair comparision.
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serenechaos
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #41 - 05/17/05 at 23:11:50
 
Did you not like the corner horns,
or you're saying nothing else was in the listening room to compare to, so no one knows what corner horns sound like relative to HDTs, radials, or anything else?  
???
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« Last Edit: 05/18/05 at 21:11:40 by serenechaos »  
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JLM
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #42 - 05/18/05 at 10:50:44
 
My honest opinion:


The horn is too small to extend frequency response below 40 Hz, therefore it cannot be an audiophile speaker as it misses some of the musical range, it can only be part of an audiophile speaker.  


To develop depth of soundstage a corner horn must be located in a room that has wing walls across from each other as Steve has done, making it practicality very limited.


Steve's room isn't small, but with the needed wing walls and 45 degree orientation built into the design of the horns, the listener is pretty well forced into nearfield listening setup.  This again limits its application.


Maybe Steve is more busy than I can imagine, but don't know why its taken years after they were built to get these plans off the shelf.


I wasn't all that impressed with what I heard.  Keep in mind that they use middle of the road Fostex drivers.  And as you may recall I like and own Fostex.  This goes back to my suggestions to make a larger version of the cabinet that would accommodate larger drivers and produce deeper bass.  IMO this is a very involved cabinet to be limited by "ordinary" drivers.  And IMO no cabinet can be ideally suited for a wide variety of drivers as has been discussed here.  Just my opinion.

The music played was unfamilar to me.  The source was obviously vinyl, with all it's surface noise/etc.  As a digital guy that bothered me right from the start.  Another reason I wasn't impressed is because Steve played a game with each of us, as we were escorted into the room blind folded.  Games shouldn't be necessary.  Perhaps I take audio too seriously.
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JLM
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #43 - 05/19/05 at 00:01:43
 
I finally heard The Horns sound good at the recent MichiFest.  Sorry, I don't recall which of the six amps we had there that we were listening to them with, might of been the Cary SuperAmp.  They were Randy's old beat up pair with the original drivers I believe.  They really did sound very nice.

But The Horns have some issues IMO too (primarily lack of bass, they sit too low for many domestic settings, and they use a somewhat cheaper/lesser efficiency Fostex driver).  OTOH I fully agree with Ed's manifesto of the virtues of the single 4 inch driver speaker (with the caveat of needing a powered sub/bass augmenter to go with them).  

Another amazingly good speaker that uses cheap/small Fostex drivers ($38 FE127E) is the Omega Super 3.  The Super 3 is standmounted, wide baffle bass reflex that cost about the same as The Horns when you add in the stands but actually goes a bit deeper.
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serenechaos
Ex Member



Re: DECWARE CORNER HORN PLANS !
Reply #44 - 05/19/05 at 00:56:03
 
JLM
So, maybe it is just that your ears prefer BR/TL and sand amps?
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