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HDT tweaks (Read 21834 times)
brad
Ex Member



HDT tweaks
04/12/05 at 16:32:54
 
There are some HDT tweaks a-brewin'.  I'll let Ziggy or Steve give the full details when they are ready. In the meantime, here is one that you can easily do separate from the others.  I got this from Ziggy...

Wrap the driver phase plug barrel - the sides of the socket not the front - with felt.   From the tip to 1/2" back towards the voice coil.  Meaning a strip of felt 1/2" wide and length equivelent to the circumference of the phase plug.  The felt should be thin, similar to that covering the back of the driver magnet.  This felt with self-adhesive backing can be had from Michaels or other craft mart.

Don't exceed 1/2" felt width or the voice coil may hit.

Ziggy says this tweak helps reduce a peakiness in the ~3K area.

Report back your results if you do this.

cheers, -Brad-
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« Last Edit: 05/31/05 at 18:56:42 by Brad »  
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Yoda
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Re: HDT driver (FE206E-M) tweak
Reply #1 - 04/13/05 at 05:31:25
 
s m o o t h

I had purchased 1/2" wide velvet ribbon last week to build a record cleaning machine.  Applied some double stick tape to two lengths for the plugs, & viola... tamed that piano...

The ribbon may be a cleaner install since it is finished on the edges.  DS tape may not be a permanant means of fixing it to the plugs, but it works for now.  

Matt

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Yoda
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Re: HDT driver (FE206E-M) tweak
Reply #2 - 04/13/05 at 19:25:46
 
Felt ribbon is available in many widths.  Upon further review, maybe the 1/2" has too much of an effect.  will try different widths, and perhaps even partial sections.

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brad
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Re: HDT driver (FE206E-M) tweak
Reply #3 - 04/15/05 at 06:42:22
 
Ziggy or Steve,
 When are you guys going to publish the HDT tweaks?
Steve told me that the "stuffing" changes could be applied first, without applying the other changes, which I understand require some manufactured parts.  Well, not really stuffing but inserting foam (I think it was) in specific amounts and locations.

I'd like to apply the first two tweaks to improve things while waiting for the others. Namely:

1) Felting the phase plug
2) Applying foam to inside of cabinets
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« Last Edit: 04/15/05 at 06:43:21 by Brad »  
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Young_SC
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #4 - 04/15/05 at 11:21:57
 
I tried the felt and it did smooth things a bit.  I still want to increase the smoothness on certain recordings.  Probably going to take a new CD player which I can't afford  :(

I'd be interested in knowing the specific stuffing locations, I just ended up sticking in different spots willy nilly. Kiss
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #5 - 04/20/05 at 22:21:53
 
I applied the felt tweak to a set of the drivers.  I also applied a tweak learned from John Wyckoff (Hammer Dynamics).  That of painting a thin coat of silicon calk to the front edge of the whizzer cone. Don't glop in on (thick) or you may add some significant mass to the cone, negatively affecting it's sound...



The white ring in the above pic is white silicon glue applied to the whizzer cone.  The pair I used to have some years ago looked like this. On the FE206 drivers I used black silicon (Home Depot) so it's not as visible.

Both tweaks have smoothed out the treble, though it may be more due to the felt than the siliconing the whizzer.

Still, I wish the bass had more meat. Hopefully, the other tweaks will help in this regards WHEN they come out .... Ziggy?  ;)
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« Last Edit: 05/03/05 at 00:42:04 by Brad »  
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ziggy
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #6 - 04/21/05 at 01:30:32
 
Brad,

 I don't know if I wouldn't wait till the Taboo was in the system. It may make all the difference in the bass response.
FWIW My favorite set up was the Taboo and the HDT's.

  I've still got to build a set of HDT's with the tweeks in place. Breaking the drivers in now....

    Bob Z.
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #7 - 04/21/05 at 01:37:04
 
For sure, I'm waiting for final judgement until after my TABOO arrives and is fully broken in.  But right now I'm using a Panasonic home theater reciever - which actually sounds better than one might think. It uses the Tripath digital amp chips and  is nice value considering it's low cost, sound, and features.
The Panny has around 60 watts per channel, so while I was expecting it to sound bright and not image as well as a low powered tube amp, I was expecting the bass to be higher in volume (not necessarily speed and quality).

Also, since I have two sets of FE206E-M drivers, I can play with the tweaks on one driver and make comparisons (which I haven't done yet), and also don't have the fear of ruining my speakers.
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« Last Edit: 04/22/05 at 20:43:43 by Brad »  
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #8 - 05/03/05 at 00:12:53
 
Tweak,  tweaks... we  wan't  (more)tweaks....

Grin
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #9 - 05/03/05 at 00:18:03
 
FYI, although I used double sided tape and regular felt, Michaels arts n crafts store has thin adhesive backed felt. It's much easier!...

http://direct.where2getit.com/cwc/apps/w2gi.php?template=search&client=micha...

btw, I have been told the other tweaks won't be released until the newly designed passive radiators come out - hopefully soon.
Apparently the new cabinet tweaks/mods utilized a lengthening of the inside ports along with new passive radiators. You can add the port lengtheners (just PVC coupler and extra pipe) by reaching into the cabinet through the PR holes, so not a major deal.  The cost of the new PR's will reportedly be very low, so for those thinking of buying an HDT/kit, there's no point in delaying the purchase while waiting for this tweak to come out.  Also, Steve said he's not sure yet if this mod will actually go into production - perhaps just left to the DIY'ers.

There was also some mention of a highly modified version of the FE206E driver which has some elaborate/difficult-to-apply cone coating.  I'm not sure when or if this mod will make it to production.

This is all I know about the tweaks - and that they are supposed to make the HDT sound better.  Looking forward to more of Steve's never-ending pursuits of perfection  ;D
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« Last Edit: 05/03/05 at 00:44:53 by Brad »  
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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #10 - 05/03/05 at 17:36:44
 
Brad,
Do you know if the new passives will require any change to the cut-outs in the sides?  I am planning on glueing up my cabinets this week and have the cut- outs already routed as specified in the plans. I would like to modify these now rather than after it is glued together.
I probably should e-mail Steve directly and force him to give me answers Undecided
I also need to know about the port changes. I can easily replace the pvc ports now, before glue up.
Thanks for the heads up Smiley
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks (Ziggy?)
Reply #11 - 05/03/05 at 18:07:13
 
Steve said the "tweaks" will not require any cabinet mods. So obviously the PR's will fit in the same holes. The port mods can be easily made by reaching into the cab's through the PR holes and adding a length of pipe via a PVC coupler and glue. The port mods and new PR's work only together, so it doesn't make sense to  use the new port length without the new PR's. Doing this would probably degrade the sound - perhaps creating some response hump.

I don't recommend calling Steve about this, since this will waist his time explaining to multiple people about this "pre-realease information" that he already explained to me.  The final details will come out eventually.  Now, if you want to ask questions here on the forum to him and/or Ziggy, and express you interest in these mods, it might help push Steve into getting the new PR's done sooner rather than later  :D
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« Last Edit: 05/03/05 at 18:21:51 by Brad »  
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Falconer
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #12 - 05/04/05 at 13:03:36
 
I hope it's soon, I received my plans, etc. last friday and am ready to start building Grin
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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #13 - 05/04/05 at 13:57:41
 
Brad,
I sent an e-mail to Steve. I agree that calling would not be a good idea. Hopefully he will post the tweaks soon. If I knew that the new passives would not be expensive I could move forward with confidence and not worry about having to punch out and replace them. I certainly do not want to pay $60 to make a tweak if I can hold off for say another week. Maybe if I knew when he was going to release the tweaks I could better decide. ???

john
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #14 - 05/04/05 at 16:08:10
 
I have the existing passive kit I could give to you for a good price. I was going to build, but then found a good deal on used HDT's, so now I have an extra pair of drivers and the passives kit.


Falconer, again, you don't have to wait. The mods can be easily done after the fact.  Besides, it's better to put the drivers into use as they take quite a long time to fully break in.


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« Last Edit: 05/04/05 at 16:09:52 by Brad »  
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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #15 - 05/04/05 at 18:02:07
 
Brad, is your passives kit just the foam surrounds or are they glued up assemblies? I may be interested in purchasing them from you. I bought the $100 HDT kit and it just had the surrounds. I bought the suggested craft foam and felt and plan to glue them to cardboard and then the surrounds.

I think I may go ahead and finish the cabinets and wait for others to comment on the new passives and ports. ???

What are you planning to do with your first set of 206 drivers?
Were the HDTs that you bought made by Ziggy or were they homebuilts and how do they sound?
Lots of questions.
John
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #16 - 05/05/05 at 21:18:20
 
If I remember correctly they are the pre-made ones. I'll have to check... if I can find them!  :'(
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ziggy
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #17 - 05/06/05 at 00:46:59
 
Brad,

  How do you lose a pair of HDT's? I get tired just moving them around the shop.

  It will be real easy to tell if I built them, top of cabinet is textured black, and the bottom will have 12 oval shaped pocket holes, 3 per side.

  Bob Z.
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #18 - 05/06/05 at 01:19:55
 
Ha, ha, that's funny  :)
I meant I can't find the passive radiators, I previously ordered, not my pair of HDT's!  :D

Yes, the HDT's I have were made by Ziggy.
I'll prabably experiment with the other pair of drivers - in some other cabinets.
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« Last Edit: 05/06/05 at 01:23:26 by Brad »  
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #19 - 05/10/05 at 17:45:15
 
For anyone who has performed the driver socket mod (installed the phase plug) themselves, I have found on the two Decware-made FE206EM drivers that I have that the 1" socket sounds better than the 15/16" socket.  To my ears, the treble sounds more extended, but smoother with less brightness.  Perhaps a flatter response?  It's not a huge difference, but a clearly audible one.

Of course there is VERY little tolerance between the 1" socket and the voice coil. I would imagine this is a difficult thing to DIY without screwing up the driver.

Caveat: the driver with the 15/16" socket was in my used pair of HDT's so I don't know how many hours are on them and I suppose it's possible they are not fully broken in.  I know my drivers with the 1" socket has had MANY hours on them.
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« Last Edit: 05/10/05 at 17:47:55 by Brad »  
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Mike W
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #20 - 05/10/05 at 18:15:57
 
Quote:
Caveat: the driver with the 15/16" socket was in my used pair of HDT's so I don't know how many hours are on them and I suppose it's possible they are not fully broken in.


The driver or the socket? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #21 - 05/15/05 at 22:54:07
 
Brad,

What are the port changes supposed to do to the sound?

Take care,

Corey
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brad
Ex Member



Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #22 - 05/16/05 at 04:09:46
 
I only heard that the new tweak (port length change + new passive radiators) are supposed to make it sound better. How better - I don't know.  As I said before, they go hand in hand.  You can't change the port length without also changing the passives (which aren't out yet).
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #23 - 05/24/05 at 02:12:36
 
Any word on the passives and tweak details Ziggy?
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Steve Deckert
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #24 - 05/29/05 at 16:34:53
 
High Fidelity Engineering Co.
ALTERNATE TUNING
Model HDT206EM
High Definition Loudspeakers
ALTERNATE TUNING GUIDE

Since the release of the HDT loudspeaker design in 2003 we have come up with what we feel is a substantial improvement in overall performance of the HDT loudspeakers. If you’ve researched the design you know it was originally developed as a two-way loudspeaker in 1996 using a conventional 8 inch driver and 1 inch tweeter. When the design was adapted for the Fostex FE206E driver in 2003, the tuning of the ports and
passives was raised to accommodate the higher fs. This allowed the cabinet and Fostex to work together and with the addition of our Phase Guide to the driver the end results were quite good.

We found while comparing the original 1996 speaker with the HDT that the higher tuning of the ports and passives reduced the fundamental operation of the multi-chamber design. In the original speaker there is no treatment inside the enclosure or any of it’s chambers yet it has the most liquid midrange you’ve ever heard. The Fostex based HDT on the other hand was more congested. It saw most of it’s loading from the primary chamber leaving the secondary and averaging chambers doing little work and hence emitting little energy. This prevents the speakers from doing as good a disappearing act as the original 1996 model.

Since the cone of the FE206E driver is so thin it is important when you build a pair of HDT speakers to know exactly how to treat it and with what. This paper will describe the proper procedure for treating the inside of the cabinet. It will then cover the optional alternate tuning that we suspect will be received as a significant improvement even though we can find nothing bad written about the 200 pair that have been built to date.

The alternate tuning is optional because many will be perfectly fine with the way they sound now. And it requires an additional modification to the drivers, new passive radiators and different length ports. The ports can be easily modified once the driver and both passives have been removed from the cabinet.

The alternate tuning when combined with the correct treatment of the inside of the enclosure will result in a significant increase in bass and extension of bass frequencies. It will remove the congested sound in the midrange and treble and activate the complex beauty of the enclosure design to make all the chambers work resulting in a head shaking disappearing act.

CABINET TREATMENT
The material used for all internal cabinet treatment is 1 inch thick egg crate foam like that used as mattress toppers. You can find it at Wal-Mart, Target, and most fabric stores. After you have removed the driver and both passives, or when you are building the cabinet new you should install this foam in specific places, cutting each piece for a snug fit.

Piece 1 is a 12x12 square that fits in the bottom of the averaging chamber. It can be installed though the square port in the lower rear of the cabinet or from the top through the transmission line.

Piece 2 is a 16x7 rectangle that fits on the rear panel behind each passive opposite the oval cut-outs. It should be pushed to the top of the chamber. You will have one of these pieces for each side of the enclosure.

Piece 3 is a triangle that fits in the top of the primary chamber above the driver.

Piece 4 is a 4 inch strip that mounts under Piece 3. It should be cut to a length to cover all three sides of the primary chamber.

Piece 5 is cut to match piece 4 and located just below the driver opening where as piece 4 is located just above the  same opening. Piece 5 will also just cover the bottom of each oval cut-out so it should be notched so as not to obstruct the opening.

DRIVER MODIFICATION
The driver should be returned to Decware for a special viceoelastic wax glaze on the cone which lowers Fs slightly and improves midrange.

PASSIVE RADIATOR REPLACEMENT
The passives should be replaced with the alternate design available from Decware.

PORT LENGTH MODIFICATION
Front port should be lengthened from 6 to 11inches and the side ports lengthened from 8 to 17 inches. Use PVC

cont.

Note:  This is available as a .pdf file  http://www.decware.com/HDTALTERNATETUNING.pdf
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Steve Deckert
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #25 - 05/29/05 at 16:39:25
 
HDT ALTERNATE TUNING—CONTINUED


The alternate tuning for the HDT loudspeakers will become standard in the Fall of 2005 after it is debuted at our October DecFest. A kit will be available that includes the following:

1. 6) 2 inch PVC port tubes with couplings for lengthening the
ports. This can be done once the passives and main driver have been removed without tools and is reversible.

2. 4) Alternate design passive radiators. These replace the original passives and are glued in just as they were. This mod is also of course reversible.

3. 12) pre-cut pieces of foam used for internal reflection control. Replaces felt previously used. This mod can remain even if the other mods are reversed.

The final stage will be having the drivers modified with gel wax to drop the fs and fully active the mods listed above. This mod is not reversible. You can either purchase a new pair of drivers from Decware with the gel wax mod, or send your original drivers in for upgrading.
Prices for these mods will be listed on the Decware web site in the
HDT pages when they become available.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS


Q) Can I ship my HDT’s back to Decware for these mods?
A) No. Shipping these speaker cabinets back to Decware ensures a 70% chance they will be damaged or destroyed by UPS. It’s just not worth the risk. You can drive them to our cabinet facility in Mesa AZ or to our amplifier facility/home office in Peoria IL if you want. Bob or Steve will be happy to upgrade them. Upgrading them yourself is easier then it sounds. You can also consider having a friend come over to help you.

Q) Can I mod my HDTs without the updated passive radiators?
A) The updated passives applied to the standard HDT’s without any of the other mods will not adversely effect performance or fidelity.

Q) Can I apply all of the mods but continue to use the original
drivers?
A) Yes. The sound of the original drivers will not suffer from the mods. The gel wax modified drivers will however take advantage of the mods to a far greater extent.

Q) Can I have my original HDT drivers modified with gel wax and forget the other mods.
A) Yes. You will hear an improved midrange with slightly more bass and about 1 dB less overall efficiency. However, implementing the other mods will greatly enhance it’s sound by further improving the midrange, lowering the bass and significantly improving the imaging.

Q) Will the lower bass response and added weight take away from the speed of the bass — I really like the HDT bass the way it is.
A) NO. It will be just as fast, but come off slightly warmer and
deeper.

CAUTION:


The HDT loudspeakers have a solid reputation among serious audiophiles in their standard configuration. If you own a pair and simply love the way they sound you should consider leaving them alone. The updates will add more weight and bass response which could tip the delicate balance you may have achieved with the rest of your system and room. We  expect that in most cases the alternate tuning will be perceived as better but there will always be exceptions.

We have been field testing the alternate tuning all year with various HDT owners and the improvements so far have been 9 out of 10 thought it was an improvement. With that in mind,
if you love the way your HDT’s sound now, there is a 10% chance they will sound worse after the mods.

Of course, the worst case scenerio would be you falling into that 10% in which case you could reverse the mods. If you purchased a second set of drivers with the gel wax and still have your original drivers, reversing the mod would be fairly  painless.
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thedude
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #26 - 05/30/05 at 02:20:11
 
I'm going to Home Depot tomorrow to buy pvc; I put the foam in tonight.  Why are these speakers so easy to tweek? Cheesy  -Matt
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thedude
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #27 - 05/31/05 at 04:47:48
 
Alright guys the ports have been modified and the foam is in place.  They've been playing with the Zen for about an hour and I swear theyre imaging better and sounding more open.  As for the bass, my square room and the current speaker placement make for muddy crappy bass from any speaker (but good imaging).  I'm going to move them to another place where I know the bass is decent and possibly buy some rolls of fiberglass to use as a bass trap.  As for now I can tell theres a little more bass extension.  I'm going to drive them with a more powerful amp tomorrow; this is always fun.  -Matt
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verk
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Question for Steve RE: Passives
Reply #28 - 05/31/05 at 06:12:44
 
Hi Steve and other HDT Builders.

In what way are the new passives different to the old?
If it is just a weight thing, can this be adjusted (increase obviously easier than decrease) instead of replacing the old with the new?

Thanks

Verk.
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Falconer
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #29 - 05/31/05 at 12:54:54
 
Perfect timing on the mods, I'm ready to cut and glue pvc into the port plate tonight (5-31-05). I'll have to check with Decware and see if the drivers shipped to me had the wax job.
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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #30 - 05/31/05 at 18:00:59
 
Thank You Steve.
I still have a couple of questions....
  Do we still use the 1/2" felt behind the drivers like Ziggy suggested originally, or are these pieces of convoluted foam all we need?
  What about Poly-fill in the top of the chambers?
  Can the new passives be made by hand with the same surrounds you supplied in your kit? I have not glued these together yet and can wait if the info will be released soon.
  Sorry for all the questions, but an answer will help me decide which course to take.
Thanks,
John
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #31 - 05/31/05 at 18:18:45
 
If I remember correctly from my talk with Steve, the new passives  are dual-articulating and/or dual-tuned.  I don't think it's as simple as changing the mass of the PR.  Of course, I've been wrong before Smiley

Question for Steve/Ziggy: Have you guys tried tuning the left and right side of the speaker differently?  ie, different length port on the left/right sides, and perhaps keeping the original PR on the left and putting the new one on the right? Sorta same idea as offsetting a driver in a baffle to average out peaks in the response?  Or perhaps this is un-necessary and/or would just screw up the tuning and sound?

I was just thinking this might be a happy medium for any in the mentioned 10% that like better the un-modified/stock version of the HDT.
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« Last Edit: 05/31/05 at 19:01:02 by Brad »  
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Steve Deckert
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #32 - 06/01/05 at 03:32:44
 
[quote author=zinker  link=1113323574/30#30 date=1117558859]Thank You Steve.
I still have a couple of questions....
  Do we still use the 1/2" felt behind the drivers like Ziggy suggested originally, or are these pieces of convoluted foam all we need?
  What about Poly-fill in the top of the chambers?
  Can the new passives be made by hand with the same surrounds you supplied in your kit? I have not glued these together yet and can wait if the info will be released soon.
  Sorry for all the questions, but an answer will help me decide which course to take.
Thanks,
John
[/quote]

No, you do not need the felt.  The foam replaces it.
Poly-fill in the top chambers has also been replaced by foam.

The new passives start with the same surround which is glued to a 6 inch surround that is in turn glued to a 4.5 inch paper dome.  The dome is supported by another specially shaped cap glued to the inside along with the appropriate weights.

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Steve Deckert
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Re: HDT tweaks (ZIGGY?)
Reply #33 - 06/01/05 at 03:45:02
 
[quote author=Falconer  link=1113323574/15#29 date=1117540494]Perfect timing on the mods, I'm ready to cut and glue pvc into the port plate tonight (5-31-05). I'll have to check with Decware and see if the drivers shipped to me had the wax job. [/quote]

Unless I specifically say so over the phone prior to or after an order, the drivers will not be gel waxed but rather exactly as represented on the web site.    I have waxed a few for people I've talked to about doing so, but otherwise my plans are to simply replace the current model with it when we start building the HDT's this way as standard.

At this point that will probably happen in October directly after the 2005 Zenfest here at Decware.  The information and required parts are being made available now because we know many of you will jump on the mod and report the results.  If they are all positive it will of course make the debut at the Zenfest something to look forward to.  If the reports come back negative then we won't take it into production.  That said, I'm betting my ear's reputation on an overwhelmingly positive report.  I'd hate to have wasted my time and consider our customer's time to be equally valuable.


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cscull
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #34 - 06/01/05 at 04:27:54
 
Excellent timing on the tweak release!
I just finished piecing together my HDTs last sunday, albeit with card board covers over the passives while I contemplate an original paint scheme.

The HDTs have been on non-stop and are really beginning to sound good on Day 3.  I find it hard to pull myself away from them.

I probably set a record for "most questions asked" during my multi-month HDT build - so I thank the forum for their support.

Craig
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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #35 - 06/01/05 at 17:30:29
 
Thanks for the quick reply Steve.
Since the new passives are a completely different animal, I think I will use the old ones for the time being. I will ,however, use the new foam interior scheme along with my non- modified drivers until I hear from others about thier experiences. This project has been in works for so long now and my amp is just sitting gathering dust. I MUST HAVE MUSIC NOW! I hope the new passives are not too expensive.
John
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thedude
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #36 - 06/01/05 at 23:27:11
 
Well I've been listening with my more powerful Peavey SS amp.  The bass is certainly different.  The cone motion is more regulated so the drivers dont move as much.  I think the passives are activated more.  I'm willing to try the new ones.  So far so good.  Also on certain songs an upper midrange peak is more noticable with the new tuning.  I assume the new driver coating deals with this.  And like I said, they do image better.   Cheesy
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Corey
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Summary of tweaks.
Reply #37 - 06/09/05 at 05:55:41
 
Matt,

Do you have the first generation of the Fostex driver where the socket is painted black and bonded to the pole piece?
I was wondering if you have applied any felt to the socket? Can a person do this without removing the bonded socket?

Summary of official HDT tweaks?

- waxed driver cone(by Decware)
- new passive radiators(by customer)
- new internal port length tuning(by customer)
- new internal foam damping(by customer)

Also I have read about felt around the socket, is this an unofficial tweak, Brad?  Would Steve do this felt tweak as well when we send him our drivers?

One other question. Is the 15/16" socket still the official size from Decware. I remember reading something about a 1 inch socket being employed.

Take care,

Corey
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #38 - 06/16/05 at 14:56:42
 
The HDT Alternate tuning kit is now available for those of you who have been following this forum.

It includes:

1) The additional port lengths and couplings used to lengthen the original ports.

2) The newly designed passive radiators

3) The pre-cut foam pieces that replace the felt and or polyfill.

The cost is $126.00 for the kit and it will do both speakers.

It can be ordered ONLY from our master catalog or by phone.

The gel wax treatment of the fostex drivers is optional.  Those who wish to try it may send their drivers to DECWARE and I will personally modify them.

Cost to gel wax drivers that are sent in will be $50. for the pair.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

1) There is nothing wrong with the original HDT speakers.
2) These tweaks are not a FIX.
3) These tweaks, also known as the Alternate Tuning, have been made available to forum members who like to modify things.  They are not mentioned or listed anywhere in the HDT pages on the site.
4) The Alternately tuned HDT's will be debuted at this years DECWARE ZEN FEST in October.  Afterwards, the HDT pages on the site will be updated to reflect the changes and we will introduce these changes into production.  At the same time the price of the HDT will increase slightly.

tic tic tic
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #39 - 06/16/05 at 16:37:18
 
Whoo hoo! thanks Steve.
Sorry for the tic tok thing. No sarcasm intended, just pinging you guys for status.  I know you're busy - which is a good thing Smiley
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Corey
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"Sluts."
Reply #40 - 06/16/05 at 23:52:29
 
Another question for Ziggy or Steve.

A while back I was speaking to Ziggy about these tweaks and he mentioned that the passive radiators would be "added" to the existing ones foam surround. He said removing the foam and glue from the wood is just too much work.

My question is how should I go about removing the old passives? Do I have to salvage anything? Or can I just cut those ones off and strip away all the foam and glue? I just don't want to fuck anything up.

BTW, Steve. Your focus on this part of your buisness is much appreciated and looking forward to my new "Sluts."

Sincerely,
Future "Slut" owner Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #41 - 06/17/05 at 00:08:57
 
Sluts:o?  Please do explain
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« Last Edit: 06/17/05 at 00:09:27 by Brad »  
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ziggy
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #42 - 06/17/05 at 02:48:30
 
Corey,

 You don't need any of the old passives. If you take a hobby knife (X-acto) and just find the thru hole for the passives and cut the foam surround along the hole,  it will leave whats glued to the cabinet in place. you'll then glue the new passive to the old (whats left of it) passive.

 If you try to remove the passive and it tears the apart. it won't be smooth enough to adhire or seal with out removing it back down the the wood itself.

 Make sense?
 Bob Z.
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Chris K
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #43 - 06/17/05 at 03:03:08
 
Brad,
Sluts was the nickname given to the earliest designs of what is now the HDT cabinet. They named them "slut" cause just about anything (driver) you put in em sounded good! Did I get that right Bob?
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #44 - 06/17/05 at 03:23:51
 
Brad,

I forget where I saw them called that.

Chris,

I don't know the story. That is certainly plausible. I was  giggling   Wink  my ass off as I typed that though. Still makes me laugh...

Take care,

Corey
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Chris K
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #45 - 06/17/05 at 03:27:09
 
[quote author=Corey  link=1113323574/30#44 date=1118975031]Brad,

I forget where I saw them called that.

Chris,

I don't know the story. That is certainly plausible.
Corey [/quote]

Not just plausible Corey! I heard it right from the horses mouth! Grin
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #46 - 06/17/05 at 03:27:54
 
Ziggy,

Thanks, I am going to use a razor blade and bend it to contour with the cutout flush so no foam hangs out or is ragged.

Take care,

Corey
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #47 - 06/17/05 at 03:31:05
 
Chris,

Right on!

I would have thought the reason was that liquid midrange just melted one to the point of easy seduction, repeated, "one night stands" (hehe)

Horny with anticipation Corey  :D
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ziggy
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #48 - 06/18/05 at 01:47:11
 
Chris,

 Close, It has more to do with the number of holes bored in them. Driver screw holes, partition pass thru holes, you name it its been inserted in the cabinet.

 When DeVon orders HDT's from me, I have to think about it for a minute. Oh yeah Sluts..........

   Bob Z.
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« Last Edit: 06/18/05 at 01:48:19 by ZYGI »  
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Chris K
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #49 - 06/18/05 at 01:58:25
 
Yeah Bob
Those little sluts have more used holes than a Nevada whorehouse Grin
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #50 - 06/24/05 at 16:47:32
 
Just placed my order for the upgrade kit.  :D  Haven't yet decided on the gel-waxing.  I'd like to hear from Steve the effects on sound of adding the gel wax.
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« Last Edit: 06/24/05 at 16:48:45 by Brad »  
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #51 - 07/05/05 at 17:20:00
 
Anyone having their drivers gel-waxed, or planning to?
I have the cabinet upgrade kit on order and would be interested to hear opinions of the sound with the driver upgrade.
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Falconer
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #52 - 07/05/05 at 21:03:03
 
Hey Brad,
I'm going to wait and see what others say about the gel coating ???. I have the new port lengths and egg crate foam in place and all I need to do now is order the new passives. Building these speakers is taking longer than I thought with all of the summer activities going on Cry. I hope to get close to having the HDT's finished soon Grin.
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #53 - 07/08/05 at 22:34:38
 
Brad,

I am getting my drivers waxed. I got the impression from the paper that this really activates the other mods by lowering the driver fs slightly increasing weight as well as increasing liquidity, perhaps having the air molecules launched off of a softer surface vs. hard.

Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #54 - 07/11/05 at 16:43:04
 
It would be interesting to know more about what's going on. For sure the cone mass will be higher. Perhaps trading off the lower Fs for a bit lower efficiency.  

I don't know what "liquidity" really means. If you mean "smoother" maybe we're just talking about a (further) reducing of that up-tilt in the frequency response - in the upper mids and lower treble that the FE206 has.

Keep us informed.
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #55 - 07/11/05 at 22:04:20
 
Brad,

Steve mentioned about 1db loss of efficiency which isn't a problem with our amps.

Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #56 - 07/21/05 at 22:15:57
 
I sent an email to Devon. It's been close to a month and no word of a ship date on the upgrade kit yet.
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #57 - 07/22/05 at 03:38:58
 
Brad,

I am not sure of your intention for posting the above. If you wanna bitch, then bitch. Let it out. I just don't see the point of the above post. Cut Steve some slack man. Things are busy and considering how much solder that guy inhales every day, I think he is doing just fine.

Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #58 - 07/22/05 at 17:22:31
 
So let me understand what you're saying... You think it's good for Decware (not) to be notified by their customer base when their delivery of goods/services is falling below a customer's expectations?  I guess it's better for customers to just be quietly disgruntled and to silently take their business elsewhere.  If there is no feedback, a biz owner would never know where their  offering could be improved.  Customer feedback is ALWAYS good.

The intention is to bring some attention to the fact that I ordered something almost a month ago and have had no contact from Decware.  I don't think "bitching" is an accurate description of my communication.  I wanted to bring attention to a whole in Decware's customer service - and sometimes a public notice of such is the best way to draw attention to it.  I don't mind being told a product won't be shipped for a month (due to parts/supplies delays, or x, y, or z).  But not hearing ANYTHING about an order is not good customer service.  I'm a very understanding long-time customer of Decware. In this case just an email would go a long way.  I'm sure that Devon intended to send me an email, but probably forgot.  And yes, I know they are busy, understaffed, etc.  Such is the world of owning your own business.  I would suggest some biz process be used to avoid this - maybe just a spreadsheet or MS Outlook task entries?  

As Decware grows and product shipments increase, which could happen with things like the TABOO and other products being reviewed, things will only get worse unless they can put some process in place.  There are many smart guys on this forum, many "techies". I know Randy is one and I'm another.  Perhaps we could help Decware by making recommendations on software products that could help.  A web page based front-end to whatever database they use could help - eg, allowing customers to just go to some web page to view the status of their order, thus reducing emails and phone calls to Devon/Steve.

Bottom line; I'm fine with "suffering" product ship delays in exchange for awesome products at very reasonable prices.  I'd just like some status/communication so I know what's going on.
And I have a feeling I'm not alone in this experience and mindset.

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« Last Edit: 07/22/05 at 17:26:13 by Brad »  
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Mike W
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #59 - 07/22/05 at 18:03:36
 
Quote:
And I have a feeling I'm not alone in this experience and mindset.  


You are correct.
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #60 - 07/22/05 at 18:12:02
 
Brad,Brad,BRAD

Have you called Devon?
If you haven't and truly wanted results then would not picking up the phone and calling her be the best bet?

What you are saying is its best to motivate by fear?

Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #61 - 07/22/05 at 19:15:45
 
Corey, Corey, COREY,
 No I did not call Devon. I sent her email, which she quickly responded to and said that Ziggy would be sending it out by Friday.  This is good. But you miss my point.

Look, I know a ~$100 sale is small potatoes and goes to the bottom of the priority queue.  But I shouldn't have to initiate communication to either 1) get status or 2) get the ball rolling.  And if Decware had hundreds of orders in the pipe and every customer did this, they'd be handling phone calls and emails all day long with little time to do anything else.  Who knows, maybe that's what's going on.  

I've heard of other intances of delays, lost orders, etc., from Decware, though to be fair probably low in numbers compared to the amount of orders they take.   I'm not trying to unduely hammer Steve/Devon for this. I know it's not easy and there will always be instances of miscommunication, lost or delayed orders, etc.  I personally like Steve allot - from what I know of him through various phone conversations.  And I absolutely LOVE the various Decware products I've owned. At present my system is almost entirely Decware products, save my Sony SACD player.  I just think their order process is less than perfect and could use some improvements. Is that such a HUGE criticism?  Am I a "meany" for pointing it out?

By voicing this in a public formum, maybe I am doing harm to Steve's business. I sincerely hope not, and I doubt it. What I hope is that if others have a similar feeling as I, it comes to light so that Steve/Devon finds out, and can address things to improve his customer satisfaction, and long-term have an (even more) sucessful business.

Is my opinion ok, ok, OK, or should I send it through the Corey (all feedback must be positive) filter before posting it to the Decware forum?


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« Last Edit: 07/22/05 at 19:18:04 by Brad »  
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #62 - 07/23/05 at 00:08:31
 
"Mommy, I want my cereal NOW"  >:(

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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #63 - 07/23/05 at 00:12:42
 
Sorry Brad, I just had to use that pissed off smily face, its just so cute. It makes me laugh.
I apologise for judging you I guess, something just set me off last night reading your post on a $100 speaker tweak. Peace dude! I'll shut up now.

Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #64 - 08/02/05 at 17:01:40
 
I got the kit now. Will let y'all know how it changes things.  Anyone else doing, or did, this yet?

The passive radiators are interesting. they have double foam surrounds and are domed instead of flat. I'm thinking they may need speaker grills - if they protrude from the cabinet they could be damaged easily.  I'll try to post pics.
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« Last Edit: 08/02/05 at 17:09:15 by Brad »  
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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #65 - 08/02/05 at 17:55:23
 
Brad,
Please keep us posted. I am particularly interested in how the mods work without the Gel added to the drivers. Is this the route yopu plan to take?
John
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #66 - 08/02/05 at 18:06:38
 
for now. I may add the gel later.
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DaveCan
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #67 - 08/02/05 at 18:33:16
 
This is great Brad can't wait to hear how you like them with the new mods etc. Pics when you have a chance. Dave Smiley
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #68 - 08/04/05 at 07:13:51
 
Well, mods are in place.  Only question I have is there are two square pieces of foam that were not labelled as the others were (with felt pen) as to where they should be placed. The are the same dimensions as the top of the cabinet but slightly smaller.  Do they go in the bottom chamber? if so, how? through the small port in the back of the cabinet?

I'll have to wait to comment on the difference in sound until I have more hours of listening. One thing though, I was expecting the most difference to be in the bass, but in fact the first thing I noticed was more "presense" - at first I thought it sounded brighter, but then the more I listened, it just sounds more "alive".  Not quite sure yet...  
In any event, at first listen I don't hear it as being a slam-dunk better thing.  We'll see if my opinion changes over time.  I'm wondering if the passive radiators have break-in time like drivers?

more to come...

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« Last Edit: 08/04/05 at 07:45:22 by Brad »  
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Falconer
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #69 - 08/04/05 at 12:31:37
 
Hey Brad
The piece of square foam you have does go in the bottom of the speaker thru the port hole Grin
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #70 - 08/04/05 at 17:51:12
 
Thanks bird-man  :)

Btw, what I meant with the "slam-dunk" comment was, while I do think it sounds better with the mods, I don't consider it a huge difference. While I'm glad I spent the couple hours to make the mods, it not like the originals sound broken by comparison.  It's  just the "signature" of the sound is changed with the mods. I think this is similar to what Steve said.

On some recordings with the TABOO amp I hear a brighter presentation - some people may not like it and I don't like it on (some) recordings. On good recordings the soundstage opens up even more and the speakers disappear more. I also hear more of a difference now when switching back and forth the TABOO "lucid" mode as well as changing the feedback settings.  Before the HDT mods I couldn't hear much of a difference changing these settings - now it's more pronounced.

If I were buying a new pair of HDT's I definitely would opt for the new configuration.

Anyone know the answer to the question of whether the PR's need break-in time?  Also, we'll see if those square foam pieces in the bottom change things much.

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« Last Edit: 08/04/05 at 17:57:44 by Brad »  
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #71 - 08/04/05 at 18:49:52
 
Brad,

It is nice having dynamics and acceleration close to a Lowther. I think I will eventually just buy new Decware 206 drivers with the wax applied. Less shipping(only one way) and that cutts down on huge loss chances by the UPS factor.

Right now these drivers can really pull off a speed act naked.

Take care,

Corey
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Corey
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Sluts
Reply #72 - 08/04/05 at 18:59:04
 
Yes, the passives need huge break in time. You got a new pair of sluts there to break in. The foams look like some type of poly coated foam.

Id bag on them for 6-7 hundred hours then really decide whether you want to build an SO sub. If I was building the sub I would go with the unwaxed drivers for parties. You want the mids more conjested and dynamic for the SO.

By the time you get those passives broke in you will have enough nickel/dime cash around to buy a new waxed driver at $295.
Some people buy $250 tubes like 300 B's yet add another 50 dollars and you have $295 and a new set of gel waxed drivers that really let the modifications sound through.

Corey

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zinker
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #73 - 08/04/05 at 23:40:26
 
Brad,
When I spoke to Steve he said that the passives definitly need break in time, just like the drivers.

I do have a couple of questions for you.
When you installed the new foam did you remove any of the existing dampening material? Could you describe the existing dampening material for me? Is it 1/2" felt?
I am beginning to think that some of the poor sound issues I am experiencing may be due to insufficient dampening. I installed the convoluted foam as Steve describes in his mods, but other than that the only other material I've added is some poly fill  in the tops of the speaker chamber. I have not extended the port tubes yet , nor have I had the drivers gelled.
Please keep us posted.
Thanks,
John
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DaveCan
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #74 - 08/04/05 at 23:46:03
 
sounds good so far  :)  pics, pics Cheesy Cheesy     Dave Smiley
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #75 - 08/05/05 at 02:07:00
 
[quote author=zinker  link=1113323574/60#73 date=1123195226]Brad,
When I spoke to Steve he said that the passives definitly need break in time, just like the drivers.

I do have a couple of questions for you.
When you installed the new foam did you remove any of the existing dampening material? Could you describe the existing dampening material for me? Is it 1/2" felt?
I am beginning to think that some of the poor sound issues I am experiencing may be due to insufficient dampening. I installed the convoluted foam as Steve describes in his mods, but other than that the only other material I've added is some poly fill  in the tops of the speaker chamber. I have not extended the port tubes yet , nor have I had the drivers gelled.
Please keep us posted.
Thanks,
John [/quote]

Only thing I removed was the stuffing (wool?) above the driver.
If I remember correctly, this is what I was supposed to do... ?
Wink  I'll betcha that gel wax is intended to smooth out the slightly bright/rough high-end that I'm hearing with the mod - again on some recordings. I wonder what other effects it has on the sound?
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« Last Edit: 08/05/05 at 02:09:23 by Brad »  
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Corey
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #76 - 08/05/05 at 02:59:26
 
You need to add a ZBox to the Sony 999.

Take care,

Corey
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #77 - 08/05/05 at 17:52:33
 
[quote author=Corey  link=1113323574/75#76 date=1123207166]You need to add a ZBox to the Sony 999. [/quote]

Why?  The output is quite sufficient.
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muzik
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #78 - 10/10/05 at 09:33:19
 
Hello,

Does any one know what type of glue is used for the PVC pipes to MDF??..

Thank you.
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Falconer
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #79 - 10/10/05 at 12:31:44
 
Hey muzik
I used expoxy for the pvc to mdf. I first took some 120 grit sandpaper and roughed up the end thats going to be glued into the the mdf.
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brad
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #80 - 10/10/05 at 18:25:51
 
Liquid nails or most multi-purpose "construction adhesive" should work fine.  This is the type of stuff used to glue granite counter tops to wood kitchen cabinets. Sticks to almost anything and cheap. See Home Depot or most any hardware store.
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muzik
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Re: HDT tweaks
Reply #81 - 10/10/05 at 22:04:06
 
Thank's I will try that.
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