Forums - tube rolling in the SE84CSP

veryoldcat

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #15 - 01/29/06 at 03:00:26

[quote author=rmt link=1102301096/0#14 date=1138496474]I bought a military 61np(from DrN) just for my CSP on order. It does not seem that it is a favorite amongst the CSP crowd. BB 6dj8 appear to be the favorite for the input. I use one those for the input on my CS and I like it very much. Does anyone remember why they switched to the BBs instead of 6n1p and 6922s? I have read that having the same input tube in the pre/zbox and amp is not the best combination. Any comments? [/quote]

I think at one point, Steve Deckert said he didn't like the CSP with 6n1p's in all tube positions at the same time. If I recall, the comment was, "it's a few too many 6n1p's," or something to that effect.

I have a couple military 6n1p's on the way that are cryoed (at least I think I do), and am anxious to revisit the sound of them in both the CSP and the select, to see if my impression stays the same. The 6n1p didn't sound "bad" as input tube in the CSP. In fact, it sounded quite nice; it was just that the BB 6dj8 was extra-supercalifragilistic.

Karl

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brettjm

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #16 - 01/29/06 at 03:27:21

[quote author=rmt link=1102301096/0#14 date=1138496474] I bought a military 6n1p (from DrN) just for my CSP on order. It does not seem that it is a favorite amongst the CSP crowd. BB 6dj8 appear to be the favorite for the input. I use one those for the input on my CS and I like it very much. Does anyone remember why they switched to the BBs instead of 6n1p and 6922s? [/quote]

I've tried the Holland made orange globe Amperex 6dj8, and while it's a very sweet tube it isn't my favorite. I've also tried the Mullard 6dj8, but I like it even less. I know I'm going against the crowd here, and at first I was enamored with them. But after a while the novelty wore off. I place both of those tubes in the same category: warm with lots of (artificial) bloom at the expense of spaciousness and holographic imaging. Compared to the Amperex the Mullard is even darker and more congested in the sound stage. Mullards have a flavor I described as Caramel. The amperex is less heavy, yet still relatively unfocused.

For those who wear contacts or glasses, I can relate that switching to a good 6N1P from Mullard or Amperex is like getting a new prescription. Suddenly everything opens up and the color is just right. Not overly saturated. Words are more intelligible. I consider it a very neutral transparent tube, with a little sweetness and a slight roll off of the highs. Compared to a strictly neutral tube like a Siemens, the 6n1p is less forward and IMO still lacking slightly in the holography department.

If you dig the 6n1p I must recommend the Brimar CV5358, especially cryod. OMG, this thing is a holographic nightmare and blisteringly honest. I love it.

Sometimes beer goggles are a good thing (lackluster source, etc), and I would consider Mullard the ultimate beer goggle. Amperex a good buzz. Sober, I'll take a 6n1p or Brimar CV5358 any day.

As always YMMV,

-Brett

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« Last Edit: 01/29/06 at 07:11:55 by BrettJManning »

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Sam in USA Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #17 - 01/29/06 at 03:47:03 tried many different tubes. I am happy with military 6n1p now. ;D
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Lon Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #18 - 01/29/06 at 11:00:53 Me too! (cryo'd)
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Hotsauce

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #19 - 01/29/06 at 12:29:03

I'll back up Brett's opinion of the Brimar.

I have a pair cryoed, and a pair I bought from another member uncryoed. Theres no need to mark them, its obvious by playing them.

I also have some Amperex 6922's cryoed. A similar dramatic improvement. Great match with cryoed Mullard EL84's

In cryo, the amperex is slightly faster, more forward sounding.

The Brimar CV5358 is smoother, and wider. Great match for the cryoed Russian EL84's I got from Brad.

Cryoed, these tubes are quieter, they have a much wider sound, and seem to play more detail at the trailing edge notes. They add that last little bit

Have any of you run cryoed 6H23's yet?

John C.

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DrN Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #20 - 01/29/06 at 14:57:17 I have 4 Brimar CV5358 (not Cryoed) on E Bay right now. These were $30 each! Auction up today. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5858053491 These are saucer getter, marked foreign. D
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brettjm

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #21 - 01/29/06 at 16:01:54

[quote author=Hotsauce link=1102301096/15#19 date=1138537743]The Brimar CV5358 is smoother, and wider. Great match for the cryoed Russian EL84's I got from Brad.
[/quote]
Yes, that's what I've found. I'm still blown away by those tubes.

Quote:

Have any of you run cryoed 6H23's yet?

Not yet. It's even made in the same factory as the 6n15nM from the group buy. I think it might be a sleeper, but I'm leary about spending the extra bucks for a cryo version without any feedback. I've asked about it in the Tube Lovers Forum, and so far it doesn't seem too popular.

Have you compaired your Amperex 6922 with an Amperex 6DJ8?

-Brett

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Hotsauce Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #22 - 01/29/06 at 17:09:32 BTW, these are the CV5358 with saucer getter, NOT the CV5358 with halo getter. http://www.tubecollector.org/cv5358.htm Thats the exact tube I'm using. I have some brimar marked cv5358 that say 'foreign' on them that are nowhere near as good. These do not say brimar on them anywhere. John C.
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DirtDawg Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #23 - 01/29/06 at 18:35:38 Sorry, for the n00b question, but what's a getter?
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DrN Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #24 - 01/29/06 at 19:03:43 Those are the ones I have. Saucer getter marked foreign. Den
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Rap

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #25 - 01/29/06 at 19:37:22

[quote author=DirtDawg link=1102301096/15#23 date=1138559738]Sorry, for the n00b question, but what's a getter? [/quote]

It´s the metal cup at the top of a tube, in the production process after sealing the tube the getter is heated with RF frequency and the barium in the getter cup eats up any left over gases inside the envelope making it a more perfect vacuum. This leaves the silver deposit often seen at the top of a tube.>>mod no not the silver heat shield<< The getter keeps on working through a tubes life span. You can often judg the state of a tube by looking to see if the getter has any white spots=bad mean´s the envelope has a leak and the end is near (for the tube of course )

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« Last Edit: 01/30/06 at 13:37:38 by Rap »

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Sam in USA Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #26 - 01/30/06 at 20:27:36 Anyone modded their CSP? if so what's the value of the green tracon caps? I was thinking of replacing the .47u Daytons and the green tracons. Thanks
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gnat leader

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #27 - 01/30/06 at 22:24:19

I did. Put in Mundorf caps. See below link. Note: my early CSP has a different circuit than most of them. Details are in the link/thread below. My CSP had two 0.1 WIMA and 4 (two paralleled pairs) of 0.022 caps (little dark green guys)...

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Tubes;action=display;num=1125...

Image of most common (later) model CSP's

Image of my CSP (early model)

Image of my CSP after Mundorf caps put in...

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« Last Edit: 01/30/06 at 22:25:28 by Brad »

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nubz69 Ex Member	Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP Reply #28 - 01/30/06 at 22:43:12 Do you have a more updated review of your mod?
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gnat leader

Ex Member

Re: tube rolling in the SE84CSP
Reply #29 - 01/31/06 at 06:44:35

It's difficult to say anything more than I said a while back. My source has changed (Modwright bypass of the output stage, now going direct to the CSP), plus cryo treated tubes everywhere in the CSP and TABOO. I will say that the cryo treated SV83's had a bigger change to the sound than the Cap changes in the CSP and TABOO (I swapped out the Auricaps for the Mundorf Silver/Oil's). However, I still feel the cap upgrade was worth the ~$130 because it had a benefit no matter what tubes are used. More detail and bringing out the "life in the music" in an organic/analog sorta way while remaining smooth.

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