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Hell, those aren't big ! (Read 20985 times)
MikeS
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !/ wood horn lenses?
Reply #200 - 04/17/03 at 16:31:24
 
Steve,

Did you ever make any drawings/plans of the wood horn lenses?  I did very much appreciate the Imp. plans you made available!

Thanks,
MikeS
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sparkplug
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #201 - 11/07/03 at 23:34:57
 
I can't believe I'm posting on somthing said almost a year ago.  I'm about half way through this thread, and I couldn't resist.

<As I applied the varnish, while it was still shiny and laying on top of the surface, the sound would come out of the varnish!  Just a 6 inch square area in the throat raised the presence by 3dB. It was unmistakable, yet I couldn't believe it.>

Could this be caused by the air density change caused by the varnish vapors??

Jake
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richard03
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #202 - 11/08/03 at 18:00:51
 
has anyone got any predictions for how a pair of imperials would perform outdoors , any feedback would be much appreciated....thanks
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Brian
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #203 - 11/09/03 at 16:41:44
 
Hello richard03,  
Indoors a speaker usually has some bass cancelation nodes caused by wall reflections.  These cause the bass to have dips at various frequencies.  Because of the lack of this rippled bass, I believe any speaker would be more perfect out of doors than in.  
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Brian
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #204 - 11/09/03 at 16:45:24
 
Sparkplug, Your air density idea seems plausible to me.  
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weasel2htm
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #205 - 11/11/03 at 03:04:25
 
I've Played both the wac and the mp3 on a variety of systems (but no HT systems yet)  WOW  Home system Sansui 5000X and Paradigm Phantoms  Sounded cool, wow Played in my car, worn out Coaxials Stock Tape player and DB12 The car is where I got an Idea on the depth of the room and was in general shocked (the DJ talking is what sounds cool) Played the recording through the youth room sound system at my church (EV PSX2000 Powered Mixer 500 watts/ch and 4 Sound Tech speakers with 12" woofers and horn tweets) I had told a friend of mine about this thing and I gave him the website but he could not believe the treble from the 15s of this speaker the room is too echoey for much stereo effect.  OK now that I got my rambling out of the way I will sya one thing about this speaker  WOW  I have no room for something of this size so I guess the phantoms will have to continue doing their job.
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strobe
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #206 - 12/16/03 at 21:25:00
 

[quote author=Brian  link=1040842968&amp/195#205 date=1068396324]
Sparkplug, Your air density idea seems plausible to me.  

[/quote]

RE: <As I applied the varnish, while it was still shiny and laying on top of the surface, the sound would come out of the varnish!  Just a 6 inch square area in the throat raised the presence by 3dB. It was unmistakable, yet I couldn't believe it.>

I'm not so sure about vapors and am more inclined to the theory of some sort of surface tension dynamic.  Wonder if some fuzzy material (like a velour) coating the throat area would have a similar effect by affecting the compression wave transmission into the horn material?  Thoughts?
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Braggi
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #207 - 12/19/03 at 17:44:46
 

[quote author=strobe  link=1040842968&amp/195#207 date=1071609900]


RE: <As I applied the varnish, while it was still shiny and laying on top of the surface, the sound would come out of the varnish!  Just a 6 inch square area in the throat raised the presence by 3dB. It was unmistakable, yet I couldn't believe it.>

I'm not so sure about vapors and am more inclined to the theory of some sort of surface tension dynamic.  Wonder if some fuzzy material (like a velour) coating the throat area would have a similar effect by affecting the compression wave transmission into the horn material?  Thoughts?
[/quote]

I've heard over and over how important a smooth surface is to the function of horns. What could be smoother than the surface of a fluid? I imagine that sound waves are affected by friction. Reduce the surface finish (that is, make the surface smoother) and the sound will flow better, especially at high pressures like in the narrow throat of a horn.

Mystery solved?
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morpheous85
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #208 - 03/22/04 at 04:25:30
 
You have my vote.

Jason
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Braggi
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #209 - 10/21/04 at 04:30:52
 
OK, time to return this thread to the top of the heap, may it live forever!

Well, I never read whether Steve D. liked his Selenium 2" drivers or not on the big HF horns so I'll assume they're nothing to crow about. I have a pair (three actually) of Emilar EA-175 drivers They're only 1" exit but they sound very good. I have a lot of other mid/high compression drivers to try too and several different metal horns. Will someday build some wooden horns though not sure which design or manufacturng process I'll use.

For now I'm putting siding on my new woodworking shop. In a few weeks I'll most likely get started on my first pair of Imperials. I'll try out my 30 year old Altec 421-8LFs in them. I have four. I imagine I'll like 'em. If and when money allows I'll probably buy Altec 515s for the second pair.   Smiley
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bigmike216
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #210 - 10/21/04 at 05:47:08
 
Sounds like lots of fun Braggi! I wish I had a space dedicated to woodwork, that didnt involve pulling out the cars. Smiley
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #211 - 08/12/05 at 06:26:33
 
I thought that was a good idea to bump up the good threads
so here is the one of the best.
an oldie but a goodie and things have not changed as of yet.
But the Ip SO is on its way.
cheers
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #212 - 02/23/06 at 21:26:00
 
Bump
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jj420
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #213 - 07/24/06 at 19:19:26
 
'nutha bump, just keepin' the faith.
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spock534
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #214 - 08/04/06 at 04:15:42
 
I just spent 2 hours reading this thread.... best waste of my time ever!!!
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Terry
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #215 - 02/06/07 at 07:49:21
 
Great I found this thread!!

Thanks Braggi!

TG Smiley
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #216 - 02/07/07 at 01:54:23
 
Whoooo Hoooo
my fav thread for ages the WO32 one got deleted but this one remains.
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Terry
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #217 - 02/07/07 at 09:21:31
 


I brought it back to the top for selfish reasons.   And because I didn't want it to fall of the edge of the world, threads have a way of doing that.  This one started this whole forum.

TG Smiley
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buzz
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #218 - 04/06/07 at 19:59:35
 
Bump - The all time favorite Decware thread!
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Gexter
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #219 - 04/07/07 at 03:50:02
 
yep!  :)
read it again for the first time   Wink
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Renato
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #220 - 05/09/07 at 15:59:06
 
A sound system designer named Richard Long stated in one of his papers he designed a cabinet called the Waldorf. It is similar to the JBL Double 15" scoop enclosure but is based on the Jensen Imperial design. The enclosure was designed with a hyperbolic rather than a exponential flare. Is the decware imperial design also a hyperbolic flare ?. Also if you would, please explain the difference between the two flares ?
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buzz
Ex Member



Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #221 - 05/09/07 at 21:55:22
 
Renato wrote on 05/09/07 at 15:59:06:
A sound system designer named Richard Long stated in one of his papers he designed a cabinet called the Waldorf. It is similar to the JBL Double 15" scoop enclosure but is based on the Jensen Imperial design. The enclosure was designed with a hyperbolic rather than a exponential flare. Is the decware imperial design also a hyperbolic flare ?. Also if you would, please explain the difference between the two flares ?



No comment on flares, just a few tidbits about Richard Long. He was the audio engineer for Studio54 and other famous club scenes. Having died years ago, Gary Stewart has taken over where Richard left off. Arguably the best club sound in the world. http://www.gsany.com/
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Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2993
Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #222 - 05/10/07 at 04:55:17
 
Shortly after this thread started, the original wav file was removed.  It is 75 megs and that equals about a months worth of posts on this forum.   Anyway, without this original file (uncut) the thread just isn't the same.  So here it is:

http://virtualvault.freedom2surf.net/205752

Steve Smiley
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Brian
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 402
Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #223 - 07/22/10 at 10:29:43
 
Concerning the preference for mismatched speakers in the Imperial, I found this exchange on the Weber Guitar Speakers Q&A page:
http://www.webervst.com/sptalk.html

From: Gerald C. Lopez
I have two 8 Ohm speakers that I can wire either parallel or series to my tube amp for an impedance of either 4 or 16 Ohm. My amp has both 4 and 16 Ohm output taps. Are there any sonic differences or benefits of series over parallel wiring or vice versa?

Gerald, connecting two speakers in parallel is an old trick to smooth out speaker response and enhance the damping of either speaker. HIFI designers took it one step further by connecting two speakers of different sizes in parallel. A speaker has a large impedance increase at its fundamental resonance, and depending on the installation, this can cause the speaker to sound boomy or out of control. By connecting two speakers in parallel, particularly two speakers of different sizes with different resonant frequencies, each speaker will tend to quench or dampen the boominess of the other. Since no two speakers are exactly alike, even with two of the same size, that damping will occur, however slight, for any speakers connected in parallel.
    For speakers connected in series, there appears to be less control, and more of what is called 'back EMF' from the speakers fed back into the output circuit. While that seems rather chaotic, many players prefer the series connection, as it gives them a more textured tone, enhanced breakup, and overall a more desireable tone for guitar work. It's totally subjective, of course, and many factors affect the end result, such as voice coil size, gap energy, closed back/open back cabinet, output circuit damping, etc.

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Brian
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Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #224 - 07/24/10 at 18:13:54
 
On the subject of the high frequency horn being difficult to make; Western Electric once made a horn (model KS6368) of cloth stiffened with plaster the way a plaster cast bone splint is made.  Perhaps shaping the pattern the cloth is to be formed on would be equally as difficult as making the wooden horn, but to me it does not seem so.  
At any rate, I thought it something to consider for anyone thinking of making a treble horn.
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Brian
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Posts: 402
Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #225 - 07/27/10 at 04:03:53
 
Four 12s?
I would like to try four 12 inch speakers, two Bass & two mids arranged cruciform. With the cabinet being around 38 inches wide, the two Bass speakers could be pulled out to the sides making room for the two mids to stack up in the center.  Four 12s have area midway between two 15s & two 18s. But with lighter moving mass in each speaker, presumably the motor can exert better control of the cone for a faster, cleaner sound.  
With the big surface area, I guess the Imperial would still have the "hit", the crack! that comes from the twin 15s.  

I was thinking of using Weber guitar amp speakers which are available with 32 Ohm impedance.  The four of them could all be paralleled for 8 Ohms.  
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« Last Edit: 07/30/10 at 01:39:51 by Brian »  
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Valiant
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Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #226 - 07/28/10 at 02:04:46
 
I got good results using 4 x 8" on my half Imperial. Imagine 8 x 8" (or even 10 x 8") on a Full Imperial. Still needed a tweeter for the high range though.
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Brian
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Posts: 402
Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #227 - 07/28/10 at 03:17:02
 
For a tweeter with four 12s, I figured use the same wood horn as with the two 15s.  Although a lateral array of 2 or 3 bullet tweeters would be less work.  The center one would point straight forward, while the outer pair would be splayed outward a few degrees for dispersion since bullet tweeters do not otherwise have much dispersion.

These bullets could mount between the two midrange woofers if these were pulled to the top & bottom edges of the baffle.

Perhaps this tweeter array ought to be on a board which can be rotated up or down so that if they are too intense they can be pointed partially toward the ceiling or floor to get them out of the face of the listener.
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Brian
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Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #228 - 07/30/10 at 01:40:38
 
A single 18 inch Bass and two 12 mids would have the combined area of two 15s.
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MasterOfDisaster
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Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #229 - 01/09/16 at 19:27:18
 
Did enyone built these speakers? Which drivers did you use? I have two JBL D 130, so, I guess I would need two more 15" drivers for deeper bass. Is it possible to build those speakers but only for 1 x 15" (only JBL D 130) or in that case should be build by original 1956 Imperial design?
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Brian
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Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #230 - 01/13/16 at 03:18:57
 
Hello MasterOfDisaster,

I believe a single D-130 would work because forum member "Buzz" used a single 10 inch mounted on each side of an Imperial to get stereo sound from a single cabinet. He said it sounded great.
A picture is below.

I will post a link to his build report if I can find it.

Welcome to the forum,  Brian
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Buzz_stereo_from_a_single_Imperial_print.gif
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MasterOfDisaster
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Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #231 - 01/14/16 at 15:27:03
 
Hi Brian
Is this a thread yo mentioned above:

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1165629295

I am in position tu purchase JBL 2226H drivers. How about them for Decware Imperial? One 2226H and one D130 in each speaker?
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Brian
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Posts: 402
Re: Hell, those aren't big !
Reply #232 - 01/19/16 at 01:22:24
 
Yes, that is the thread I was thinking of.
I do not know enough of the JBL 2226H to comment on it's aptness for this cabinet.

Brian
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