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Message started by Pete O Day on 04/07/19 at 18:53:10

Title: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by Pete O Day on 04/07/19 at 18:53:10

Hi Folks,  I hoping someone has experience driving Vandersteen speakers with one or both of these amps.  I have 2Ce Sigs. w/ 86dB sensitivity.  Vandersteen recommends 40 to 160 watts.  My room is aprox. 15X18, 8ft ceiling.  My normal listening distance is 9ft. from speakers.  With SPL meter, my high reading is 80-85dB.  Rarely 90dB.  
Any information would be appreciated.  
Thanks in advance. :-/ :-/

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by 4krow on 04/07/19 at 21:48:03

You had better give the 2Ci's what they want (40watts or more). Going over the top is less of a problem than aiming low.

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by Lin on 04/07/19 at 22:03:40

Either one will be fine.
A couple of years ago I asked Steve about some 85 dB speakers I had and he recommended the JR.

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by 4krow on 04/08/19 at 03:46:57

Again, I would rather have more watts than I need rather than coming up short. Of course, this is also dependant on the way that you listen to music, and the demands that the music has on your system. I loved the sound of Rachel in my system but loved the sound even more when I increased the power. The amp only put out 6 watts, and it should be plenty for the 94db ZOB, but here I am more satisfied with 60. Not looking back either.

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by Pete O Day on 04/08/19 at 16:42:03

Thanks for the input.  It seems I got a bit of a mix of yes and maybe.  Has anyone actually used 2Ce's w/ Decware?  I understand more is better in many cases.  All my SS amps are more powerful than my speaker ratings.
The Decware matchup seems to be cutting things close.
Thanks to all.

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by HockessinKid on 04/08/19 at 16:53:55

Zen Mystery Amplifier drives my Vandersteen 2CE speakers with no problems. These are not my primary speakers though.

I transitioned from Vandersteen to Omega Audio speakers in my main two-channel system several years ago and haven't looked back. The Omegas and other higher sensitivity speakers match up better.

Don't want to complicate your decision, just thought my personal experience might give you some additional fodder to think about.

The little Zen amp & Betsy Baffles is an exceptional and relatively inexpensive option as well.

NB

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by Lin on 04/09/19 at 02:50:08

IMO  4krow is comparing apples to oranges.
A lot of people do this and attribute the change to power only when many other factors are involved.
A set amp and a p/p; more has changed than just power.
A 15w p/p may have made the same change.

Pete,
At your listening levels you are using 1 watt, 25 watts should be plenty of headroom.

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by Jeff of Arabica on 04/09/19 at 07:12:44


Quote:
A set amp and a p/p; more has changed than just power.


Not exactly.  The manner in which those watts are delivered (SET vs. Push/Pull) contribute to a sound signature, but when it comes to driving speakers and the resulting volume, the power output of the amp IS what matters most.  This is of course stated with the assumption we are talking about Decware amps and not some other overstated/undelivered amp manufacturer.  

If I had a set of 86dB speakers that I wanted to drive with headroom at 80-85 SPL, I am agreeing with @4Krow and not going the Torii route.   I can say this with confidence as I once owned a Torii Jr., and then a Torii MK4, and now a ZMA.   Now Vandersteen is using a generic recommendation starting at 40 watts, and Decware certainly outperforms the competition when it comes to stated watts vs. actual performance, but I would be looking to the ZMA for that set of speakers.  


Quote:
At your listening levels you are using 1 watt, 25 watts should be plenty of headroom.


Wattage ratings with Decware amps is not linear.  The majority of the volume will be delivered from that first watt.  However, the volume difference from every watt thereafter is far more subtle.  When I compare my 2 watt Zen to my bridged Rachel (12 watts), the volume output is not 6X that of the 2 watt Zen.  The difference between the 25-watt Torii Mk4 is not that far from the 40 watt ZMA despite there being a 15 watt rating difference in their output specifications.  

Title: Re: TorII Mk4 or TorII Jr w/Vandersteens
Post by Colin B on 05/09/19 at 04:31:19

Wattage not being a linear scale is true for every amplifier in the world. Each doubling of watts is an additional 3 dB of gain. So the ZMA is theoretically ~3 dB louder than the TORII Jr at maximum power. Similarly, the max output of the mini torii is only ~3dB louder than the SE84 series and the TORII Jr about 8 dB above those. Steve's article is about how a lot of amps focus on big watts at the expense of getting their pure class A base wattage right, even though the first watt is what drives the speaker to its efficiency level, and the overall wattage is a diminishing returns deal past that point.

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