Forums
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl
SUPPORT FORUMS FOR CURRENT DECWARE GEAR >> SE84UFO >> using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1389993705

Message started by nightsky on 01/17/14 at 21:21:44

Title: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by nightsky on 01/17/14 at 21:21:44

Hi all,
Is it feasible to connect a powered subwoofer to the Super Zen Triode with speaker wire going from the Super Zen output jacks to the subís high level inputs and more speaker wire going from the subís high level outputs to the main speakers?
I havenít got a Super Zen yet, but have an SVS sub with high level inputs and outputs. For crossovers the sub has a variable low pass filter (40-120Hz) and a fixed high pass filter (100 Hz).
Iím wondering if doing this would degrade the sound quality of the Super Zen, or possibly enhance it with the low frequencies offloaded to the sub.
Any one tried this, or know if itís worth a try?
Thanks,
Michael

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Donnie on 01/17/14 at 22:42:59

I just run 2 sets of cables from the speaker leads on my amp. One set to the speakers and one set to my high level inputs on the sub.
I've never tried using the Hi Pass filter on the sub.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by seikosha on 01/18/14 at 02:06:09

Does running two sets of wires from the speakers terminals to multiple sets of speakers present any type of funky impedance loads to the amps?

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Donnie on 01/18/14 at 02:31:01

My sub is powered. It is just reading the signal, not using any power. I've been running this combo for going on 3 years now with no problem. Torii MKIII , MG944's and some sort of cheap JBL sub I stole from my brother when he wasn't looking.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by nightsky on 01/19/14 at 00:01:13

Thanks for the reply Donnie. The way you are using your sub - to fill in the low end beneath your speakers' frequency range - is how I've been doing it using the pre-out on my NAD integrated amp. †

My stand-mounted speakers have a sensitivity of 90 dB with 6 Ohms nominal impedance, which puts them at the low end for using with the Super Zen Triode. Thus the idea of using the powered sub with it and having it handle frequencies up to 100Hz.

Today I've been experimenting with using the high level inputs and outputs on my sub with my NAD. With the high pass filter fixed at 100 dB, I've got the variable low pass set at ~95dB. One thing I'm noticing is it sounds best with a minimal amount of gain on the sub.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Donnie on 01/19/14 at 00:39:01

90 Db speakers? Good luck with that!
I forget that most people don't play music as loud as I do.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by beowulf on 01/20/14 at 07:37:53

Donnie, do you have a picture of your cables hooked up like that?  Just trying to picture it in my mind...

Thanks!

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 01/20/14 at 13:23:50

Beowulf,

One pair of wires to the speakers as normal and another pair of wires from the main amp to the speaker level inputs on the sub amp.
The speaker amp will perform as normal because it is only providing the sub amp a signal and is not driving the subwoofer.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 01/20/14 at 13:31:38

Michael,

The Super Zen will still reproduce the low frequencies with a passive x-o after the amp.
A crossover before the amp is the only way to relieve it of the burden of those frequencies.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Donnie on 01/20/14 at 14:38:09

Here is a picture of my hookup. Later on today I will try to get something a little more detailed.


Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lon on 01/20/14 at 15:38:01

Nice picture. Nice cabling. . . but. . . Donnie your amp is very patiently asking for a nice power cord.

:D

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Donnie on 01/20/14 at 16:41:54

OK, a few better pictures (I hope).
Yeah Lon, I know, I know. Then the house wiring won't be good enough. On and on it goes.









Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lon on 01/20/14 at 17:00:25

You won't think about the house wiring. . . you'll enjoy the improved sound.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by beowulf on 01/21/14 at 04:58:28

Thanks Donnie and Lin 8-)

Quick question ... I have bare terminated wire from my amp and on my speaker connections as well. †The sub I have in mind only accepts banana jacks though

1. Could I use my bare wire cables as normal for my speakers and amp connections and then use bananas for the sub and amp connections (the same terminals at the same time ~ with the bananas plugged in while at the same time the speaker wires clamped down)?

I never tried it and was just wondering if the banana jacks and bare wires can be used at the same time? :-/

p.s. Donnie I just love that huge chunk of wood as your amp stand!

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by nightsky on 01/21/14 at 08:56:47

Hi Lin. Interesting comment. I was thinking that because the fixed high pass filter on the sub's high level outputs filters out the frequencies below 100Hz that it would make it easier for the Super Zen to drive the main speakers. But it sounds like you are saying that the high pass filter on the sub doesn't have that effect.

It may sound better wired that way (amp -> sub -> main speakers), but if it did, it would be because the sub does a better job than the speakers with the 60-100Hz frequencies, and/or the speakers sound better when only covering the frequencies above 100Hz - not anything to do with easing the load on the amp. (My main speakers go down to 60Hz +-3dB).

That's good to know. Thanks. I'd really like to try a Super Zen but having to buy new speakers (in addition to the cost of the amp) makes me reluctant. I wonder how the Hsu Research HB-1MK2 (92Hz Sensitivity, 8 ohms Impedance) would work with it.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 01/21/14 at 23:01:20

Nightsky,

Be careful when comparing different companies specs, it is usually apples and oranges. †

What speakers do you have now?

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 01/21/14 at 23:02:27

Beowulf,

The answer is YES

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by nightsky on 01/25/14 at 05:38:46

Lin, the speakers I have with 90 dB sensitivity and nominal impedance of 6 ohms are Tannoy Proto-Js, an inexpensive near field monitor. I would be willing to buy new speakers, but there don't seem to be many options for a SET amp like the Super Zen until you get up to $1000/pr or more, which is beyond my budget right now. There's the Klipsch Reference RB-61 II with 95 dB sensitivity available online for $400/pr, but I don't know of any other options in that price range.
I have a small room and almost always listen at low to moderate volume levels, so speakers with 90-93 dB sensitivity might work for me. My typical listening volume is only about 65 dB as measured by a RadioShack Sound Level Meter.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 01/25/14 at 17:01:51

http://omegaloudspeakers.com/products.html

Any of the Super 3 models and Super 5 (same driver, bigger cabinet) will work since you have a subwoofer.
There is a pair of Super 5 Monitors on AGon for $675 shipped.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by beowulf on 01/30/14 at 00:13:40


Quote:
Lin said,
Beowulf,

The answer is YES


Thanks Lin and everyone ... one more question please (and sorry if this is a dumb one :D). †So assuming I do this ... both the speakers and sub are running at full bandwidth, or should the sub still be set to a certain point, etc.?

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 01/30/14 at 00:44:34

The powered sub? will have a crossover built in, set it at the lowest frequency that blends well with your main speakers.

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by beowulf on 01/30/14 at 01:15:18

you da man Lin! :)

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by ozoid on 10/24/14 at 09:39:14

I'm contemplating buying an SE84CKC, the Omega Super 3 Desktops, and using a little PSB SubSeries 100 I already have, so I read this thread with great interest, but I'm still not clear about how a sub hooks up with the SE84CKC, especially since I didn't see pics of the cabling from an SE84CKC. Nor for that matter, have I seen a good clear photo of the amp's outputs and inputs. I'm not even sure which are which. The inputs are on the back, right? but why 2?

No doubt this can be done. I sense most if not the vast majority of SE84CKC owners use a subwoofer. I just want to be sure I understand how to do it and have the proper cables when the time comes to hook up this wonderful stuff.

My setup right now is simple: the self-powered PSB Alpha PS1s have a single RCA subwoofer output on the left speaker (where the amp is). The self-powered sub can take a single RCA plug into the left input or there's also a right input. It has knobs to control the volume and set the crossover point, and a phase switch.

So can I use my single sub-woofer cable to plug into the SE84CKC? Or will I need an adapter so one end has 2 RCA plugs into the amp? And how should the speaker cables be terminated to connect to the amp?

Sorry for the extreme newbieness. For a long time I used a Bryston amp to feed Acoustats, which never needed a sub as far as I was concerned, and I love the sound of low frequency instruments, like double bass, tuba & bari sax. But as I enter the world of SET amps and 90+ db speakers, it seems a sub is necessary. Please help clarify this for me.

And an off-topic question: I live in a Chicago suburb north of the city. As much as I'd like to visit Decware World Headquarters to hear the SE84CKC, Google Maps tells me it's about a 6-hour roundtrip. Is there anywhere closer I could hear the amp I've heard so many great things about?

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 10/24/14 at 12:03:21

You would need a preamp to use rca to rca (does your source have a volume control?) or a speaker to rca converter like is used in car audio.

There are a couple of guys up in the Chicago area, might want to start a thread asking about a listen here:

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?board=Gen

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by seikosha on 10/24/14 at 12:19:31

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, all you need to do is run one set of speaker wires to you mains and then another set (coming from the same posts on the amp) to the sub.  

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by Lin on 10/24/14 at 18:03:02

"As was mentioned earlier in the thread, all you need to do is run one set of speaker wires to you mains and then another set (coming from the same posts on the amp) to the sub."

His sub is rca in only.
So exactly how do you run speaker wires to the sub? ::)

Title: Re: using a subwoofer with the SE84CKC
Post by seikosha on 10/24/14 at 18:16:27

Lin, you are completely correct.  Thanks for pointing this out!

Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2008. All Rights Reserved.