AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Building your system where are you with yours?

Message started by Digger on 12/03/13 at 01:05:15

Title: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/03/13 at 01:05:15

     I actually decided to start this thread to see how many others are in the middle of putting your systems together and see where you are at with it. I know there are a few that are in the middle of putting things together Lonely Raven your one that I have seen and well on your way.
     This past summer with the sale of a basement full of Vintage speakers and amps I decided to re-invest some of it into a tube amp system something I've always wanted to do and with my life passing me by I decided now or never. Started looking around at what I had to work with first off needed to figure out what I didn't want to part with early on and decided to hold onto a pair of Pioneer HPM 100's and a pair of Polk LS 70's to start out with for my base line speakers. Sold the Bozaks, Synergistics, Sansui's, Infinity Kappa 7.1 series 2's and other pioneer speakers I had setting around. Sold off Marantz 2325, 2250, 2250b.
     The Polk speakers I pretty much rebuilt from the Midrange up Aurum Cantus 180 50 series f1 driver to replace the polk midrange. Morel Cat 378 soft dome horn to replace the tweeters. Up graded the crossovers with mills resisters and Dayton +/- 1% caps. Very basis crossovers simple as they come. One resister one cap and the iron core coil crossed at 375 and 2,500 nice spread. The Pioneer HPM100's are all stock with future plans of recapping these also.
     The adventure begins started looking at Audiogon my I thought to myself whew these tube systems aren't cheap so I looked at the Jolida line first seemed like the entry level place to look but really wasn't crazy about the looks and not sure if I would end up being happy with it overall. Looked at some Chinese made pre-amps price was attractive but had big concerns about service and dependability. Wasn't sure if I wanted separates or an integrated amp so the search continued. Finally read enough positive reviews about the Jolida 502 P and decided to pull the trigger on one of them but still needed to find a decent pre-amp to use with it. This is when things became interesting saw a Decware listed on Audiogon but had never heard of it and decided to do the research on it. The Jolida fit the bill with the 60 watts it would provide the power needed for summertime deck party's with sound system in the house and needing to be loud enough to hear behind the house on the deck. Not for a dedicated listening room. Decware made a pre-amp that was competitive in price with the Chinese pre-amps so the Chinese pre-amps went to the way side and that was one of the best decisions I made I liked the idea of made in the USA and by a small company that cares about quality with a nominal up charge over a Chinese made. Kept reading about all of this amazing tone that was being created by this Decware equipment so decided to pull the trigger on the CSP3+ so glad I did but in doing so it has made me also want to move into the Decware power amps so now the fun begins.
     For now this is where I'm at Sony dvd player as transport, Jolida 502P power amp, Decware CSP3+, Decware interconnects, Polk upgraded LS70's and Pioneer HPM 100's to provide the bottom end with there 12" woofers. No sub needed especially with the CSP3+ amazing the bass this little pre-amp delivers not comparable to any Solid State I've ever owned not even close for detail, clarity and bass delivery all in one package.
     Now for the future wish list. Need to get a DAC not sure which one yet and the Mystery amp. Once accomplished may consider a pair of Decware err's but not sure if I'll ever do vinyl and I know that is where the best sound would probably be found.
      I've seen some very nice listening rooms forum members have and can't imagine the time money and dedication that you all have put into your systems. I have other summer hobbies that consume most of my extra fun money and must say this is the first time I have taken my audio system so seriously. I have to say finding Decware has provided me the excitement to put together a nice system something until now I didn't have an interest to do.
      I've been fortunate to have been around a few high dollar systems that friends of mine have and they sounded very sterile to me maybe to perfect or something but didn't do any thing for me for the money they spent. A very reputable Audio Research system with VS speakers money no object. wasn't for me.

      How far is your system?

Even though my system is a bit hodge-podge it sounds excellent! † †

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Dom on 12/04/13 at 22:48:42

Hey Digger....I went down a similar path.  When I looked into a tube amps, the Jolida 502P seemed very attractive.  After reading a ton of info. online, I came across Decware and their product line.  I was quickly sucked in after joining this forum. The Decware community is a great bunch of guys.

My first call into Steve made me see just how great their customer support was.  He spent about a half hour on the phone and gave me great insight on what I was looking to do, and the best way to approach my main goal.

I started with buying a ZStage and their new ZSB Switchbox.  It's incorporated into my SS System for now.  I was just getting ready to buy the new Torii with an order placed,  but had to postpone it temporarily due to expanding my family.  Totally fine... because for the time being the ZStage brought some Tube goodness into my music.   A Schitt DAC will most likely be next.   the meantime I have learned a lot from everyone here.  

So enjoy the ride and more importantly enjoy your music!!


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/05/13 at 01:26:23

     That is funny how this all works in the audio world. Seems as though it is one piece at a time and always hope its one piece in a straight line. If I would of learned about Decware sooner I may have ordered the Torii Mark iv but already had the Jolida. It will have to be fine for a while. The CSP3+ worked very well on my SS Marantz's I would say it has made the most difference in the influence of the tube tone I was after. Not a hugh difference when played on the Jolida compared to the Marantz's sounds great on both. Depending on your SS amp I would not rule out the CSP3+. Since getting into this setup I've lost the ability to eq and have found tube rolling to be a very satisfying way to do it. Less is better right! So far I've been lucky that what I have put together has been complimenting the overall systems synergy.
† † Its funny you mentioned the Schiit equipment I just ordered a Schiit Bifrost this evening. This will be it for awhile I need to put a new roof on the house next spring so that will postpone any new equipment for now. Hopefully I will be able to pickup the Mystery amp someday and will probably pass on the Torii Mark iv although probably would be all of the amp I would of truly needed. You are certainly right about Steve great guy to talk to seemed very patient with questions that he has had to answer probably 100 times from us newbies. Love his dedication to the hobby you can tell he is just as excited about his products as his customers are its a great thing to see!
     Good luck with your new family addition its all good in life!

† † Thanks for your return post its always nice hearing other music lovers endeavors!



Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Dom on 12/05/13 at 03:12:09

Your welcome Mr. Digger.  Keep us posted on your new pun intended!!  I have heard some great reviews on their products.   I have also emailed their company, and received a reply from Jason within 20 minutes.  Impressive!!


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by marky on 12/05/13 at 13:35:52

Ditto on arriving here Digger. I`d finished a system upgrade ; Roksan radius 5, M/L aeon i e/stats, Isotek power sub, Isolda sp/cbls and....E. Electric minimax pre/power. Oh, the hours spent looking through the web for a phono amp to replace the stopgap project phono box. Could`ve just gone for the minimax...too rush...wanted something a bit je ne sais quoi. Kept looking at the altec with the mini tubes. All the others were like if I get one I`ll be thinking of their more expensive version, and being the ones you see everytime you click on a hifi site they were dear to start with. G. Slee phonos were ponder-some. And there were a lot out side my budget for the phono, even though reviews justified the high prices, hmm. Cant remember how  I got here but the ZP3 ticked every box and I suppose I dropped into a groove here. Couldn`t find [i]any[i] reason not to pull the trigger.
I genuinely felt I`d lucked in, and even bought the DHC-1 power cable with a furtech uk plug. Needed the su ZMC as well. + i/cs
A couple of hiccups, paypal had to be upgraded. Confusing for a couple of weeks, but Sarah was very cool. Then the big day and wtf`s going on   :-?  really trebly, thinnish, weird. Bit of a hum.
First thing I thought was could be incompatible.
Well low and behold when I e-mailed to make sure of the connections Steve was there. OMG it`s the boss ! Yes Steve, no Steve, doing it Steve, Steve....`You dont need to plug the ZMC in, it passive`   :) Me...`I cant get over the incredible detail`
Anyway, it was the dreaded burn in, something I`d not been through
(minimax`s pre owned).
A few days later and, (I`m starting to bore myself repeating this) It was wow! You just knew this machine was the real deal. I`ll say effortless and filterless and leave it there for now. Ears were warmed up.
It took a couple of months to recomfirm what I knew. The minimax`s were holding back what was possibe. A leisurely now, look through the catalogue  and as I`d really decided what I wanted back in the days of reading hifi mags over the years there were a pair of monoblocs in the form of basic Rachaels and the CSP2+. Power requirements met. Dial around 50%.
At the moment the Rachaels and CSP are sitting on 6" thick 4x2 ft redwood ply, hardwood, cut from an 8x4` sheet. and several coats of clear varnish. I`m working out or waiting to find an inconspicuous frame so it can be the same on a top level, then move those up and hve the ZP3, ZMC and Nak below. They are on a basic 5 tier Appol unit now. Thanks to the member who mentioned birch ply. Sometimes I imagine in the US you have thick hardwood being sold at wallmarts  :)
It`s like hens teeth here.
Should all be sorted in around 6 months and I`ll get some pics up.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by jsm71 on 12/05/13 at 17:15:53

I separate in my mind the "core" of my system from source components. †The core consists of preamp (if used), amp, and speakers. †This core establishes the available macro level sound including tonal balance and volume levels, as well as the ambient characteristics, such as soundstage dimensions, levels of realism, and transparency.

The source equipment will "take a ride" on the core and play a huge part in overall quality and satisfaction, but generally won't alter the basics of the sound. †The exception to that is some tone tuning with cartridge choices if vinyl is used.

I am really happy today with my core components. †I evolved from cones to quasi-ribbons to ESL panels in my speaker journey to arrive at the sound I was always looking for. †It wasn't until just recently that I finished my journey from all solid state to all tubes. †I had a very clean and clear sound running all SS, but something was missing. †The first step was jumping to a tube preamp back when I had Maggie speakers. †That gave me a little taste and was enough to show me I was moving in the right direction.

The search for a tube amp was mostly in my mind and a lot of web reading. †I had some real long standing objections to running a tube amp that kept me from actually trying one. †They included overall cost, fussy and frequent tube biasing, heat output, and costly tube replacements. †Those objections didn't seem to surface with a tube preamp and I really wasn't in tune with just how different and better a tube amp could be. †

I've posted on this before, but a local friend brought over his Torii III to hear it with my speakers. †That was the nudge I needed, and the rest is history. †

The Torii at that time was still only $3k (very modest cost compared to other options I read about), self-biasing (another objection removed), wasn't any hotter than other amps I've owned (check), and the output tubes were not in the hundreds to replace (check). †The sound floored me and I now own a Torii MK IV.

I am very vinyl oriented and someday I will jump to another level in TT quality along with an appropriate cartridge, but I'm super happy today. †My core gear is set. †Part of this journey is being truthful with yourself and knowing what is important and what is not.  High volumes are not important to me.  The Torii will give out before my speakers, but I get more volume than I need. †The Mystery amp remains an option but I don't think I need it.  †My JansZen zA2.1s are keepers.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/06/13 at 02:25:14

† † Guys, this is really good. I'm seeing I am more normal than I thought. My wife and I have a really good relationship been married for 36 years and tends to think I'm a bit obsessive about things that I am interested in especially audio. (Dom) I read to her your post about the Schiit BiFrost and she looked at me and said men your all crazy that was worth the price of admission were all the same. That was funny! Her approach to music is its music but she did admit while we were sitting listening to Bob Marley she was hearing things she had never heard before a good thing. I need to suck her in just a little bit more.
     Looks like a lot of different approaches to where we all are ending up. My journey started many years ago in the early 70's when everybody had the Pioneers, Harmon Kardon, Sansui, Kenwood and Marantz stereo systems. I was to young to afford any of them at that time but had always remembered the great sound back in them days. Over the years after that purchasing surround sound systems and other 2 channel stereo's and not finding that old sound I used to know pointed me into collecting the old vintage equipment. Seems as though in the late 60's the more popular SS equipments sound was being modeled after there predecessors the tube amp. I always like the more liquid well balanced sound of a well broken in Marantz probably the closest SS amp to a tube amp I've ever heard. I also have a SS system that I will probably never part with and it is a McIntosh 2100 and McIntosh MX113 that has been refurbished 1971 model. I believe this was the first model out that replaced there tube line of amps and they modeled it after as close as they could to there tube amps as not to loose there business worried about the switch to solid state. I will say they did there best at it but certainly isn't the tube sound that I have learned to love.
     It looks like we all still have a bit more work to do to our systems Interconnects, Power cords, tubes, and any other new useful thing we will come across. I was looking at tube Dacs but wasn't sure if that would end up being the best way to go sometimes to much of a good thing can be to much of a good thing. This will be a good test on the system I guess if I don't feel it is doing anything positive for the system I will return it and try a tube Dac and see what happens.
      Have any of you guys used tube Dacs with your tube systems? I am mainly trying to upgrade the Dac in my inexpensive Sony s-590 DVD player it really doesn't sound to bad as is but will see if it makes much difference. I have read that Sony actually does a pretty good job but I really have not had the opportunity to listen to any higher end Dacs to have a knowledgeable comparison. I know probably to get the whole package in a good quality unit transport and Dac I would likely need to spend upward of $1,000-$2,000 but I'm having a hard time wanting to put it all in one unit.

Thanks you guys for all of your replies!

      Where in the world did you find a 6" thick piece of Redwood I'd love to find any hardwood 4"s thick by 21"by 3'. I could probably have it custom cut by the Amish and than would need to let it season out for a year or so before finishing Oak or something.



Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by marky on 12/06/13 at 14:42:29

Digger, after reading a post here about placing equipment, I think speakers, on birch ply, I thought yes. I`ve been wanting a good thick hardwood base (2 really) for the new Decware amps. A conventional rack wouldn`t accommodate 2 Rachaels + CSP2+ together as a trio on one platform. The ZP3, I`ve found, prefers to be below, or isolated from them. There are racks but phew, were talking megabucks. I just wanted to get †a good thick hardwood base. Nope, cant locate any. Timber merchants dont carry them. Dried oak beams were the closest I came. Still not garaunteed to split and warp with time.
So off to the timber yard. They didn`t have birch but he showed me redwood ply, said it was hardwood..8x4 standard sheets. Good price, £20. Quick calculation and I got him to cut 4 pieces 4x2`out of one sheet. £30
Perfect size. Sorry, I got carried away with the thickness, they look thicker but are 3"thick, just measured them. When I get the top tier I can get 2 cut up and make both 4".
You can have the grain going either way.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/06/13 at 14:50:13

I use maple platforms and they always improve the sound.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 12/06/13 at 16:36:22

I would like to make some Maple platforms, but I'm having trouble finding thick slabs to make them from, and the purist in me doesn't want to glue up a bunch of 1" boards to make 3"-4" boards.

I'm thinking about hitting up a tree felling shop in my area and seeing if they can get me some rough slabs, but I'd have to air dry them or build a small solar-kiln.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/06/13 at 16:53:14

This guy has reasonable prices imo.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by tgarden on 12/06/13 at 17:25:46

I purchased three maple pieces from Timbernation, several years ago. †I'm happy with them.

One nice thing, they have not warped at all. †This was not the case with the several maple pieces I got from Mapleshade (also years ago). Every one warped, two rather dramatically.

Mike in Seattle area

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by stone_of_tone on 12/06/13 at 17:32:47

I am looking for a new pair of Speakers for all three of my Amps.
SE84CS - SuperZen CKC - Mystery Amplifier

I think I found them:

Gallo Classico CL-4
92dB @ 2.83v/1 meter
None required
as little as 15 watts to drive them tells me....all 3 of †my Amps will drive these.... .

I have decided to get a pair of ERRx's!

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/07/13 at 15:53:04

Wow you guys are full of so much excellent information!

      You are a magical source for information on equipment and accessories. Thanks for the link to Timbernation. This maybe a good place to have custom build the shelf I'm looking for in my cabinet.

      †I received the Schiit BiFrost last evening. Now I will see if this Schiit will stay or go! I dropped it into the system and away we go. My first impressions last night was the unit sounded a little bit bright not sure if it is just added detail or actually is brighter sounding. I sold a Rotel 995 preamp due to being excessively bright on the top and lacked bass but detail was great. It had the tendency to cause ear fatigue at higher volumes so away it went. I'm giving this unit a bit of time to settle down before I make any harsh decisions on what to do with it seems as though the detail is rich and still maintains the base punch that I like but just much tighter, tight is good! I pulled the Cryo'ed 6922 out of the output section of the CSP3+ to see if it would lighten up the top end and intalled the Cryo'ed 6n1p that I picked up from Ron at Cryoset. Yep it settled things down a bit on the top next I'm planning on trying one of the stock 6n1p's in the input section to round it off a little further currently running a Nos 6dj8. I'll sit through a few more listening sessions before totally making a final decision on whether it will stay or go. Sometimes after hard day at work it isn't the best time to evaluate additions to my system so I'll see what the weekend brings I have to say this morning things are sounding wonderful with Dire Straits. One thing though for us more technically challenged old folks I wish they would supply instructions with the new digital cables He He didn't know there were rubber caps covering the ends of the optical cables just looked like they were part of them and they didn't want to stay plugged in now you guys can get a good laugh I am! Whats even more funny the thing works with them on.

Hey all!

Have a great weekend and stay warm.



Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by beowulf on 12/08/13 at 04:54:54

Lon said,
This guy has reasonable prices imo.

Wow, those Tiger Maple platforms are sexy! ;D

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/09/13 at 01:27:01


Schiit BiFrost Tamed!

      My final impressions of the Schiit BiFrost. First off lucky I have the Decware CSP3+. The ear fatigue that I felt as soon as I turned it on was tamed a bit by tube rolling but didn't seem to matter what volume I was running. It did seem to become worse as the volume level went up. The unit did begin to soften the longer it was burning in very noticable difference over time. I finally decided to try one last thing the CSP3+ has input trim pots so I decided what the heck lets see what this will do. Well I will say this the Decware amp saved this Schiit from being packed up and condemned from my system. The input trim pots did the trick for the fatigue I was experiencing. I trimed it down as low as I could and still †able to maintain a loud enough volume to suit my needs the CSP3 input is probably set at about 3 out of 10. I didn't mess with that until late Saturday evening. Must be a slight impedance miss match through my system with it running wide open. After sorting this out I have decided to return this stock unit for the Uber upgrade version of it. This turned out to be a very nice Dac for the money at least in my eyes probably could of done a lot worse. The Uber upgrade is supposed to be a bit wider sound stage more airy and more natural sounding with a slight warmness to it. The warmness is important to me the stock unit isn't warm at all. The stock unit is just straight up reproduction a bit SS sounding a bit like the Rotel 995 I sold very detailed but a bit bright. Schiit claims there is about a 100 hour burn in and I tend to believe it do to the changes I experienced over the 15 hours of use. I have to say this weekend ended up being a productive one and a very good excuse to listen to lots of music. Not that I need one!

      If anyone may have any ideas or suggestions about the impedance problems that I may have been experiencing please chime in. I would like to here your thoughts about this or even if you've had similar experiences with other equipment you've owned in the past. I'm not 100% positive of my observations about it being an impedance issue but with trimming it down it has made me think that that maybe the issue with it. Wouldn't be bad if they put a trim pot on there unit but I'm sure there feelings are less in the system the better not really much different than Decwares ideology of building quality sounding components. I could see in some systems this unit just not being compatible from what I was experiencing with it.

Audio Advisor has been great to work with in Grand Rapids Michigan.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by shold350 on 12/10/13 at 14:29:57

My first attempt to put together a system has resulted in the following:
Decware SE34I.3 Rachael amp single input, dual volume control
Decware ZBS source selector with passive volume control
Denon 300F TT with Ortofon 2M red cartridge
Oppo BDP 105
HSU Mid Bass Module 12 MK2
MG944's (soon to arrive)
Decware ZSTYX speaker cables
Decware silver reference interconnects
LG 60" plasma
Homemade stand using 150 year old 2 inch heart of pine

I have all of this setup and connected just waiting for the MG944's to arrive. I purchased this setup after reading as much as I could and absorbing what I could understand (not an engineer just a music fan). I can hardly wait to hear it all come to life. The idea to do this came from my wife who asked me one day if I could put together a system without compromise how much would it cost. I gave her an amount (which was extreme for our normal budget) and she said order it - all of it. She had been stashing money away from a side business that she has and wanted to do it as gift. She enjoys music as well but would never have converted one of our spare bedrooms and spent this money on just her.
I am new to tube gear but it is refreshing to see companies like Decware and Turning Point Audio that are still interested in craftsmanship and customer service. I am happy to support them and others in the US that can maybe serve as model for others.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/10/13 at 14:31:56

Congrats! You have a wonderful wife, cherish her every day. You're going to be very happy with the system. I hope the speakers arrive soon!

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 12/10/13 at 15:20:40

That sounds fantastic, shold350!

Make sure you put photos up in the Members Systems section once you get it all put together!

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by JD on 12/10/13 at 15:30:44

shold 350 you are blessed my friend...well done. enjoy the listening


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 12/10/13 at 15:37:41

Update on my " where are you with yours"

I'm still debating on tearing up the front of my room, getting rid of the glass and aluminum racks, and setting up a more simple, streamlined rack (to allow for more/larger room diffusers).

I think the cabling logistics might make that difficult, so my runner up plan is to keep *one* of the glass and aluminum racks (I †currently have two side by side), and just trim down my gear collection. I mean, seriously, I have three different Monster line conditioners that were hand-me-downs from my Dad - and I'm seriously considering a PS Audio PS5 or even (used) PS10.

The easy stuff -

Waiting on the ZMA to be built so I can drive down and pick it up.

Once in place and played with for a bit, ordering up some Herbie's Iso Cups and Tube Dampers for the amp, and Tenderfeet for the Oppo.

Maybe try out some nice DIY power cables, and test my Trip-Lite line conditioner vs. (fleet of) Monster Line Conditioners, vs. Trip-Line Isolation Transformer.

Hard stuff -

I still need to finish rearranging my garage workshop so I can start building the sound diffusers, and more sound absorbers. Maybe make some sound absorbers on the side for extra cash to help me afford a PS5 or PS10.

Keep in mind, my philosophy is that the room is just as important as the amp - so my rearranging and building absorbers and diffusers, to me, is just as important as the arrival of the ZMA.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/10/13 at 16:10:22

My own systems? I'm done when my new (second pair) HR-1s arrive, which will be soon.

I might get one more pair of VooDoo Cable "Ultralinear" interconnects for my main system if I find a used pair at the right price, I have one pair to connect one of my CSP2+ to the Torii, and all my other cabling are "Evolution." I like those just fine, but for that purpose the "Ultralinear" are excellent and one more for the other CSP2+ would be nice, but it's not a burning necessity. I really like VooDoo Cable interconnects, I recommend them if anyone wants to try something new.

My Dad's system will soon have the ERRs added and we'll see whether the C amp can drive them satisfactorily in this room. They may well be driven well. If not, I may see if Mom and Dad can handle having the Torii Mk II that is resting right now in a Pelican case in use on top of the stereo cabinet.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?z
Post by Palomino on 12/10/13 at 18:51:13

I found the bifrost almost unlistenable straight out of the box.  80 or so hours it was much better.  The uber is a pretty good step up but I also waited about 80 hours to evaluate.

I started my decware build with:
1.  DIY DNAs
2.  Rachael amp
3. Decware silver interconnects
4. DIY Styx
5. Modified DNAs (different drivers per zygi)
6. Rachael amp #2

Now I am turning my attention to the room.  

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by shold350 on 12/10/13 at 20:33:52

Thanks for the kind words. I will try to put up photos when it all is in place. I have a feeling that more upgrades to the system will come someday. Some Herbies isolation devices, maybe a budget power conditioner to start but for now I think it will blow me away. I like varied types of music and will need some education on various file types and how to get the most out of the Oppo. I have an IMac desktop that I am still learning about. Thanks again for all of the information y'all put onto this sight (thats right I said y'all, what else should a Texan say?)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/10/13 at 20:57:51

As a former Texan (33 years in Austin ending this spring darn it!) it's nice to read "y'all." I still say it every now and then. . .and get funny looks here in Ohio!

Can't help you on the file format etc. stuff, I don't dig computer audio and am not involved with it, but there's lots of knowledgeable folk for it here.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/11/13 at 00:41:55

Shold 350,
      †You lucky guy nice catch. Nice system also! My wife seems to be a bit more seasoned to this stuff. All she says now is I thought you said you were done when you purchased the last thing you purchased. Then she looks at me and says your never done. The past few years has been good she'll just look at me and roll her eyes anytime I start talking about something it used to take a long time to wear her down but now its like just go ahead. Thank goodness for good women.

Lonely Raven,
      †It also sounds like you have a ton to be excited about with the Mystery amp on the horizon I would be unable to sleep kind of excited if it were me. One thing I haven't even looked at is room treatments now that maybe the end of the line for me with my wife she would probably say I don't really care about any of the rest of what you do but the living room treatments would be out of bounds more than likely. I don't really have a designated listening room it maybe a blessing in disguise for me I guess. Sounds like it makes for a great winter project seems as though winter is long enough at times.

      †I certainly could enter the world of upgraded power cords do you know of any good lesser expensive cords that would do well in replacing the stock cords I have on my units. That is one area I haven't ventured into as of yet. I did get the Decware Interconnects from Dac to CSP3 and to amp. I picked up a Analysis Plus optical cable from cd player to Dac. It is more of a lower end cable at least as far as cost is concerned but seemed a bit better than one I had from Wal-Mart. I had read that there isn't much difference in optical cables but I did notice a fairly large improvement between the two in an A/B comparison. Sounds like you still have some excitement coming your way.

      †Glad to hear your first impressions of the Schiit Dac that was just about in line with mine for the first couple of hours of first use. After about 10 hours it was settling down a bit but still felt there was veiling of the sound it was bright and very detailed but overall didn't sound as pleasant as the system sounded with out it. I'm hoping the Uber upgrade takes care of the issues that I felt the stock unit had. How much will the source transport effect a Dac. I have a Sony BDP S-590 DVD player that I am currently using. The imaging seemed better along with the total overall tonal voicing of my system with the Sony by its self. It sounds pretty darn good by its self wasn't sure that a stand alone Dac was even needed but wanted to try one. Since hearing the additional detail I can see it would be worth it as long as overall it does improve the sound. I guess at this point hoping the Uber upgrade will achieve what I'm hoping it will do.

Happy Listening!


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/11/13 at 01:08:14


I'll recommend three cords at three price points.

a) the Analysis Plus Pro cord. Not at all expensive, great value, nice smooth sound, rejects a lot of noise as well.

b) the Decware cord. Very good cord for the money, more dynamic than the Analysis Plus, and a bit more detailed.

c) PS Audio AC-5. This is a great cord and can sometimes be found used or heavily discounted about the price of the Decware. Just a little bit more of everything good about the Decware core, perhaps a bit more natural tonal and timbre wise.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by marky on 12/11/13 at 18:08:34

Thanks for the link to Timbernation Lon. I`ve bookmarked it for future reference.
Digger, room treatment to keep the better half bemused   :)
Nice middle eastern new or used rugs for the walls. Start bringing
pot plants of varying sizes home.

I had a 10 x 8 ft floor carpet on the back wall for some years. Very effective.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/11/13 at 18:43:17

Pot plants will definitely change the sound. ;)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by shold350 on 12/11/13 at 19:31:54

I was wanting to see if anyone could put out some recommendations on power conditioners. I can't spend what it would appear to take to get the upper level ones but I don't want possibly waste money by going too low on price and getting on that really doesn't contribute anything to help the sound. Any ideas? Would buying used from Audiogon or some other source be wise?
PS: the MG944's are in the cutting room today

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/11/13 at 19:38:59

There are two nice looking used PS Audio Duets on ebay today for 80 dollars each including shipping. Try one of those as a start! Quite recommended.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 12/11/13 at 19:43:48

You have a link for them, Lon? I'm not seeing them up there at that price.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by mark58 on 12/11/13 at 19:55:08

Lon, would you post the links.  I can't find them at ebay.  I promise i won't buy them.  I already have a Running Springs Audio Haley that I'm very pleased with and just bought a used Jaco for the same amount I paid for the new should arrive next week.  It's an upgrade from the Haley and comes with a Power cord that retails for 600 smackers.  Anyone just considering  a power conditioner and not power re-generators, should read the reviews of the newest versions of Running Springs Audio's power conditioners. Mike B. from Seattle turned me on to them.  Mark.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/11/13 at 20:31:35

Somebody got 'em i guess, they're not there now. . . .

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/11/13 at 21:48:55

    Do you think Pot Plants would be as effective as (Lonely Ravens) diffusers?


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/11/13 at 22:02:31

I think that might depend on the plant itself.


I think I'll consult with my experts.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/12/13 at 01:05:36


     You must mean camouflage my room treatments or are you meaning use camouflage for room treatments! He He!
Not a bad idea problem is she has the walls already crammed. How about large artificial plants might be a safer bet. My living room has a cathedral ceiling maybe I should hang something from the ceiling. The room really does not have a lot of open flat walls reflecting sound other than the ceiling. (Lonely Ravens) idea of ceiling treatments maybe all I could hope to do in the room but it would probably help Hmmm.


     Thanks for your suggestions on the power cords I will need to look in to picking some up I'll need at least three for sure. Would I do best starting with the CSP3?

     Thanks guys for all of your contributions to my questions. Having fun! Helps get through another winter.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/12/13 at 01:20:27

Well, I generally start with power amps, so maybe the Jolida. But you could try it on a different component every few days and see what you like best!

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/12/13 at 01:47:14


       Good advice. I was wondering where I would see the most immediate improvement. Seems like the CSP3 is the biggest influence in the system that is why I thought to start there. Your right if I do one at a time just move it around that maybe the best way to a/b the overall improvement one piece at a time. I was eyeballing the Decware power cords originally so maybe I will venture that way as I can swing it. Thanks for your input.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 12/12/13 at 03:13:42

You're welcome. Power cords are fun. They all seem to make a difference. Some of the differences are even good. ;)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by darrwood on 12/12/13 at 04:20:01

my journey with sound started as a teenager doing vocal work in studios with my family's music group. The studio sound was to die for. When I got enough money together a marantz intagrated and a Yamaha turntable back in the 70's In the late 80's I picked up a Dynaco sca 35 tried various speaker combos none sounded great until a friend sold me some fostex in a folded tube much better but not quite right until I got another pair with the 6.5s in 6ft folded horns there was detail sound stage and presence The Dynaco has been worked on a few times a nip and tuck but thr phono pre I felt needed improvement I want  to go to an all single ended system to match the speakers I have ordered Decwares phono pre cant wait to hear the difference it makes and to figure out my next step. Ideas anyone?

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/12/13 at 10:05:37

      Welcome to the forums. Oh boy your in for a ride here. I'm sure you will find all the Decware equipment to be excellent no matter which direction you may want to head. You asked for ideas where are you wanting to head next? There are some really knowledgeable Decware owners here that have there system very fine tuned. I myself am only partway to where I'm planning on heading with my system with plenty of excitement to come. Did you order the CSP3+? If you did it is excellent better look out after you hear it you'll want to order a Decware amp. You'll think to yourself really how much better can it get? Oh yes much better.

Have fun and enjoy your new Decware when it arrives!


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by will on 12/12/13 at 17:14:47

Hey Digger. I would suggest that over time you may want to try different power cables of known quality. I find that cable rolling every so often is a nice adjustment tool.

I put together a VHAudio flavor 2 Power Cable some years ago with gold furutech ends, and though it is designed for high current, this has been the best sounding cable in my Zstage and CSP3...More flow, nice slight warmth, excellent dynamics...pretty huge difference over a VHAudio "source" designed cable with bronze wattgate ends. Both are cryo'd and designed by the same guy. I am temped to make a flavor 4 which is just like a flavor 2 but uses a four 12 gauge wire in star quad configuration, ending up wiring a double 12 gauge to the neutral and to the hot as opposed to the 12 gauge twisted pair (single wire to hot and neutral) for flavor 2.

For my Uber power conditioner, my fav is a Cryoparts DIY 12 gauge cable with Furutech copper ends...Great for easy flow delivery and the copper plugs are more what I think of neutral (balanced-not dark, not bright), where gold plated are warmer but with good detail.

For my amp and DAC lately I like two variations of PI audio cables best. These are nice and quiet, and quite good at micro detail and micro dynamics. Here I use the 10 AWG (gold furutech ends) for my DAC and the 12 AWG (copper Furutech ends) for my amp. The opposite of logical placement.

So my current preferences put the bigger cable on sources. Go figure, I don't know, but I hear it.

I guess any good cable throughout the system would be great, but sort of by chance I have come to like the little tuning help from variation.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/12/13 at 22:38:58

      Thanks for your suggestions one nice thing when you think your done for a while and you ask a few questions it is like hitting refresh on your shopping list. Are any of you guys done? Ha Ha! My wife says I'll be done when I no longer wake up!

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by marky on 12/12/13 at 23:17:22

Your room sounds like it may not need treatment Digger. Big pot plants in the corners, well, `spose I`m going back to the first flushes of object placements, seeing what works.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/13/13 at 02:32:32

      †I think I will need to think on this a bit as far as room treatments are concerned as mentioned before the walls that are available are packed. That is why I was thinking of tall large †silk trees or something. My speaker placement is probably the biggest problem that I am not able to change. I have my Ls70's stacked on top of my Pioneer HPM 100's my right channel is in between my stereo rack and my dining room hutch without much clearance. The left channel is same configuration with the difference of it being fairly open around the stack. I do have to trim the CSP3 to correct for the volume differences caused by the clearances between the two speakers. I wouldn't of thought it would effect the sound as much as it does but it is noticeable mainly since getting this tube set up and the ability to micro adjust the channels. There are some parameters that I am unable to make changes to in my living room and maintain our furniture. I've looked at moving it into the family room but would have similar problems doing that also so no perfect solution at this point. We don't use our family room much through the winter since we don't bother heating it do to our limited time. The house is a multilevel layout so we mostly live in the upstairs area with the woodburner through the winter. I know with some of the other things I can keep busy tweaking it will give me some time to see what I can do creatively with out disrupting the room to much. I do believe it could use †some ceiling treatment but I may have to apply for a permit from my wife to get into that one Ha Ha! It would be less of a sales job on her to purchase the Mystery amp than mess with her ceilings. I was thinking of telling her lets pretend it is the 60's and 70's and hang some tie dyed sheets from the ceiling as some new decor. †


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by tom collins on 12/13/13 at 19:40:11

no time to read all of these.  here is my journey to decware.
started in late 2005, amps - arcam diva80 int., then 80 amp to biamp with diva; cary 120s; berning 2300 amp; meitner cs 100 amp; decware amp.
speakers: acoustic research 90s; advent jades; aerial 6s; dali helicon 800s; decware errs.  phono stages: built in arcam; benz lukashek; doge 8 built in preamp with sut; decware phono stage with sut.
"the last amp you will ever want" and the tone audio review started me off.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/13/13 at 22:38:51

     Are you sure it is the last amp you would ever want? Oh boy that would be a risky statement for me to make. I have found sometimes it takes numerous amps to do it in life Guitars,Telescopes you name it just never could find one that could do it all. I sure wish I could find one to do it all. I'm hoping to pick up the Mystery Amp in the not to distant future that maybe it. Would be nice to hear one first though. Thanks for your input and thoughts I'll check out your amps online. I see Decware was listed last are you meaning the Decware will be your last? I looked up some of the previously listed amps looks like you had some nice ones.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by jorgen on 12/18/13 at 13:00:15

Work is so overrated, spending time on forums and reading reviews so much more interesting at the moment. Why? Well i been doing a total change/do over of our livingroom and the need for a new setup is the latest addition to it. I just ordered a miniTor11 and by reading post on this forums took a call to Omega, couldent say no to a good deal with Louis. Now I have an amp and speakers (7"alnico driver in a 32 l floorstanding cabinet) arriving in february I guess. So at this moment im reading up on DACs and cables. I have descent signal cables and Im going to keep those. But speaker cables is next. Source; well I have a modest collection of CDs no LPs (some audiophiles may consider this blasfemic..), but I have a large digital collection in a NAS solution and also here in Norway a Spotify alternative (WIMP) that offers lossless transfer. Im really unsure what sollution to choose, but I have some weeks to make up my mind. Im into getting a good combo of sound and apperance. Decluttering is the new black. And I need it to be an easy operational set-up, wife must be able as well. †And im really sure the amp and speakers will satisfy my needs musicqualitywise. (not a word??)
Im all new to this world and all of the hidden knowledge, and I do not consider myself a audiophile, just a overaverage interested guy who wants good listening expirences, with pieces that suits the interior and style we have at home.
Of course, needless to say, good tips for streaming sollutions, DAC and speakercables in much appriciated.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by JD on 12/18/13 at 14:28:06


I've had good luck using decware silver interconnects. xhadow connections are expensive but I find them worth it. Waiting on some grover Huffman cables (small company in CA) to compare them with. The Zen Styx are a great speaker cable that takes a looooong time to break in. I also wouldn't call myself an audiophile (friends would argue this) but really love music.  Many helpful members on here that will help you navigate.  


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by tom collins on 12/18/13 at 22:29:19

Dig:  I was doing a riff on Steve's old ad slogan "the last amp you will ever want."  At this point, I am trying different tubes with this amp and have a deja vu experience.  The big Cary that I had was endowed with a switch to change from triode to ultra-linear.  Triode was sweet, layered and beautiful, but a little rounded off and 60 watts per channel.  Ultra was faster, more dynamic and more exciting and 120 watts.  This is what the Torii 3 is like when you go from Mullard EL34 tubes to Gold Lion KT 66s.   Like having 2 amps.  Although the 66s don't double the power obviously, but all the grip and authority is there.  I have added a small Gallo sub to enhance the bottom end a little bit, so things seem pretty good.  Thinking about upgrading the rectifier tubes though.  With 94 db efficient speakers, a more powerful amp is not needed.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 12/18/13 at 23:18:32

    I'm glad to hear you like your Torri. I thought real hard on that one but was afraid it would run out of steam with my 90 db speakers. I run an amp  fairly hard in the summer time when we are outside on the deck and wasn't sure 25 watts would get me there. I will say in the winter it would be all I would need. Funny how as I've grown older those 100 watt amps do not have the appeal that they use to have for me. Now it is more about quality and not so much about quantity. I'm sure I don't have the quality with the Jolida that I would have with the Torri but the CSP3 up front gives me some of that Decware sound it is quite nice with a bit more horsepower. I'm currently running the 6550's and would like to try the KT88's just to see what the difference would be. One thing I'll say I don't have any shortage of bass with this setup and I credit it to the CSP3 it really pumps some base. It may also help I have a 12" woofer in my lower speaker cabinet. Running Pioneer HPM 100's on the bottom and a heavily modified set of Polk LS 70's on the top both sets are 90 db. This sure is fun. I'm adding a Schiit BiFrost Uber to the system I returned the stock unit and am waiting on the Uber now.


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by DirtDawg on 01/13/14 at 07:11:08

I have not changed my MAIN two channel system much lately, except for dinkin' 'round between pre's and sources and sometimes not. Having fun mostly as it has been for a couple of years. †
Still have open baffle (dual fifteens below single B200s plus a slightly upward firing slot horn tweet JBL - plus my solid MDF deflection towers positioned out back, which I wish there was a way to patent, because these make OB really work nicely) powered by three SB84Cs. Sony Bluray/Dual turntable/Thorens turntable, Crown and Revox R2R sources, Art Pro/McIntosh tube preamps (The McIntosh is new to me, but old school).

I should probably bow out at this point, concerning this thread, but I have mainly focused this year on upgrading my movie rig. I think it is worth bragging about just for a second. †Then I'll shut up about it.

I now have an all †JBL 15"/mid horn/slot tweet mains (think L300, but punchy!) Left and Right, †Dual 10"/ mid horn/ dual slot tweet Center (custom, imagine Cabaret Series), Single 10"/ ring tweet rears (again, Cabaret style customs) on my movie rig.

Lows also kick ass - dual 10"/quad 15" bi-amped LFE channel, separate 18" single and separate 15" single LFE (strategically placed after much ado) All vintage JBL original materials, driven by A Denon 4311 on mains, Ashley used for digital ULF cut off set at 14Hz, DBx parametric flattening out the eighteens and Crown VFX-2 XOs between the 10s, 18 and the 15s, all Crown PS series power on the subs. †(again, all stuff I had sitting around from my sound guy days - just needed to re-think how to put it all together)

I have a TRUE Home Theater rig in my house and it is an amazing thing to behold or "feel," if the urge arises, which it occasionally does, like when we watched "Man Of Steel" †a few days ago - HOLY MOLY!!

Honestly, it was just a matter of buying a couple of Compression Driver diaphragms and getting three of the larger drivers reconed with original JBL replacements to make it all come together; most of everything I already owned. I just needed time to do the work constructing custom enclosures to fit the spaces available. Already had the massive LFE rig going, just needed the fronts, center and rears up to spec.

Going back to two channel in another room, My speakers are too large.

I would love to get decent speakers, super efficient that are smaller. These are nice (came to these after much fun and dinkin' 'round as I mentioned) and they put out incredible sound, huge stage, with just about 6 or 7 watts per channel (3-sb84s); no †one ever believes I have only 6 or 7 watts per channel.

(then again, putting my MC2500 McIntosh across them will take your breath away - but they are TOO DAMN BIG!)

I have made my living room HUGE with movie theater grade speakers. I need to make the speakers in my "shared" close listening room WAY less invasive, just to preserve WAF, if for no other reason. I feel I already have pushed her a bit. One concession would help. I do have a number of small speakers all in the 92dB/W range, but none as Hi-Res as I would like. †Keeping my Sb84s. Need efficient speakers that do not take up half a wall to work.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by darrwood on 01/14/14 at 04:13:17

Digger, Thanks for your comments. Just got my Zp3 Dec. 26th its beautiful and brings my records to life I am thinking about a decware amp I have 94db  effficient speakers and I considered the se84ckc or the se84ckcs if they are powerful enough. Is there a big difference in sound between those? I understand the csp3 makes a big difference with those as well  but the mini torii doesn't need a pre It takes awhile to afford the next big step...Wish I could listen to some of these before I flip the switch Thanks again for your reply, Darrell 8-)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by DirtDawg on 01/21/14 at 04:14:04

Over the week end, I brought home some of the "latest" †Klipsch (claimed to be 96dB sensitivity) that we sell on approval. (a simple privilege of working there.)

Honestly, as "nice as they sound" †with my sand piles (and they DO ROCK! with lots of raw power, but not so much with the two Zens I want to use) †it almost sounds as if I am listening to a speaker system that has a cold. They sound stuffed up, when compared to my OBs I have had going for about three years.

Modern Klipsch, (Energy Series) claiming the efficiency I need will not work for me. I will not go back to "congested speakers."

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 01/21/14 at 14:36:57

So - long story short, while visiting Palomino yesterday, we accidentally plugged the left speaker out of phase - and right off the bat, I'm like "well crap, that sounds just like it does at my house". After we corrected our mistake, the imaging was fantastic!

So, I'm needing to check my MG944 for anything being wired out of phase today. Something just isn't right.

Current system is:

Oppo BDP-105 -> Zen Mystery Amp ->MG944
I've got Herbie's Audio Lab stuff under everything, and on the tubes - makes a difference, but not sure if it was a $700 difference. Sure tightened things up though.

Addressing speakers today, then hopefully if I find time, finally getting back to building my fleet of diffusers (that I was supposed to get to back in November!)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 01/21/14 at 15:16:28

When you get a chance be sure to move footers about under the Mystery Amp, especially if you have Iso-Cups under the amp. It always amazes me the gradations of sound character this allows one to experience (on my Toriis, I would imagine it may be the same with this amp).

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 01/21/14 at 22:05:47

Will do, Lon. Thanks for the reminder.

I've got a friend over helping me evaluate the system.

I did crack open the speakers this morning and checked as much of the wiring as I could see - and everything looks great. Bob is a hell of a speaker builder!

That said, just for grins I did wire the tweeters 180 degrees out of phase and we've been listening to them this way for a while now. About to switch them back and see what I see. Right now, I think I like it better with the tweets wired out of phase.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lonely Raven on 01/22/14 at 19:25:07

Update - had my listening buddy Jason over - he listened with the tweeters wired 180 out of phase (which I thought sounded better to me), then we took the time to flip them back to stock. He said he didn't hear any difference in sound either way (which concerns me). Either way it wasn't the magic fix for my imaging I was hoping it would be. So back to addressing room issues.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 02/02/14 at 21:55:40

† † † †I was wondering if you have had enough time with the ZMA to have found the sweet spot as far as volume is concerned and system synergy. The difference with the amps power compared to what your used to may put it a bit louder than what your used to with your other Zen Amp. I don't have the caliber of amp to compare with the ZMA but I know with most tubed guitar amps I've been around there is definitely a sweet spot for tone and harmonics but not sure it would have any barring on imagining but thinking that it may. I know a number of experienced guitar players prefer lower wattage tube amps to be able to achieve there preferred tones at lower volumes and will use house PA's to achieve the volume they need for performances. Just thought I'd throw this out there to see what you think about it and volume levels involving tonal differences and possible imagining complexities.

† † † One thing I do know my 60 watt tube amp being fed by the CSP3 does need to have some volume to sing. I love it cranked brings everything out of the mix. The listening volumes I prefer are a bit more than my wife likes or can handle unless she is in a very rare mood and that is rarely the case! † † † † :)

† 8-)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 02/02/14 at 22:19:22

† † † How are you doing with your new Decware addition to your system. I have had no experience with the Zen amps you mentioned and was hoping someone that does would chime in to tell you a bit about the differences in the two. Anyway hope your enjoying your ZP3. It sure does take a little time saving to move onto the next component to up grade in my system one step at a time. For me it is the hunt and the fun of it sort of like other important things in our lives its the anticipation that keeps us all going.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by darrwood on 02/03/14 at 01:30:54

Hay Digger thanks for your reply. The ZP3 sounds better each day with myDynaco sca35 and Fostex towers it has a good synergy. The phono pre in the sca is pretty weak and sounds all befuddled by complex or demanding recordings yet gave me enough to know that solid state would not do... The ZP3 with a commanding bass and a natural uncolored sound gives the Dyna a good strong signal to amplify, I would think it would play well with solid state as well but I don't have any to try it with.

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 02/03/14 at 01:57:33

† † †What really matters is that your enjoying what you currently have. The set up you are enjoying now will give you the opportunity to learn and understand what you want your next move to be when it comes time to upgrade. I find not moving to fast with equipment purchases tends to save me from making costly mistakes or bad decisions. That is most of the time! Ha Ha! Have made mistakes. Glad to hear your happy with your ZP3 I am also very happy with my Decware purchase.

† 8-)

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Lon on 02/03/14 at 02:04:12

Digger speak with wise tongue.Heed the words of Digger!


Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by darrwood on 02/03/14 at 02:10:18

I can dig that vibe..... Wisdom can come from experience or from a tight budget and a good Wife....Go Hawks, Sorry I live in the Seattle area

Title: Re: Building your system where are you with yours?
Post by Digger on 02/03/14 at 02:11:28

† † †And there is a lot of nice people on this site also! (Lon) † † ;)

You hit the nail on the head a good wife always helps.


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