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AUDIO FORUMS >> Decware Reviews >> VCAP's in TORII MK III
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Message started by lovethemusic on 03/13/11 at 19:13:04

Title: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by lovethemusic on 03/13/11 at 19:13:04

Has anyone got any experience with the VCAP upgrade in their TORII MK III if so what VCAP model is installed in the upgrade firstly, secondly, did you get the upgrade after the fact and have a chance to compare VCAP's to the TORII III stock CAPS.  I have read a lot about the differences in the VCAP models and that the break-in time is very extensive but worth it.  [smiley=51.gif] [smiley=51.gif]

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 03/20/11 at 01:05:57

Welcome the to Forums, lovethemusic.  Glad to have you here.

You asked a very interesting question, and one that isn't, nearly as I can tell, readily answered elsewhere on this site so hopefully someone with experience with both the stock caps and V-Caps will chime in.

The V-Cap is offered as an upgrade, and while I may have missed it, there is very little information about the upgrade on the Torii product page.  A shame too, because Steve does a very good job elsewhere contrasting the sound one can get from the different input, rectifier, and voltage regulator tubes one can install.  

I noted on the Torii MK II Design Notes that Steve recommended not changing the coupling caps.


"The audiophiles favorite part [coupling caps] to modify...  on the new TORII we recommend you please don't.  The caps used have been selected for their benchmark coherency and the popular boutique audiophile caps have all been tried".  


However, my thought is that any product, designed to a particular price point, might be improved through substitution of different parts.  I am not saying that Steve hasn't taken this amp as far as it can go, maybe he indeed has, but unless someone who has tried various caps can state definitively, at least for his gear /room/ ears that the stock caps are as good as it gets, then one can rightly wonder about the effects of different caps.


Anyway, welcome again.  It's a quiet place, but there are some very helpul members here.  Don't let the lack of response put you off from giving the Torii a try.


Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Steve Deckert on 03/22/11 at 17:09:32

I have added some much need info about the vcaps to the Zen Torii page.  Hopefully it will help!

Thanks,

Steve

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by JLM on 03/23/11 at 16:10:05

Wow, a $500 upcharge for caps on a $2500 amp!  And they reportedly aren't even a huge improvement.  

How things have changed at Decware (I remember back when the Select, at $200 more than the model C, was the most expensive amp "upgrade" offered).   ;D

Don't take this comment as a criticism, just an observation.  I love the whole Decware scene (hand built, American, quality, value, etc.) and that there is finally an amp included for "the rest of us".

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Chris K on 03/23/11 at 21:09:48

JLM,
Price out those caps and you can understand the charge. Also $2495 is a really low price for what Steve puts in this amp, not to mention the time it took to develop it. More like a $4,000 amp. The separate tube voltage rectification on the front end and the power side as well as the purpose built output transformers are reasons why it might/should cost more. $2500 is a bargain.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 03/23/11 at 21:20:08

And they reportedly aren't even a huge improvement.
JLM

Just curious:  Where is this reported?
Thanks.


Steve -- Thanks for the additional information on the cap options.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by ZYGI on 03/24/11 at 19:16:30

Jeff,

If I am correct, and the Torii-III still uses two caps per channel like the Torii-II did then you would have to have 4 caps instead of two doubling the price for a V-Cap upgrade.  ON the Taboo, I think it is, some other changes are also made, (operating points) maybe this is why Steve thinks there is more an improvement than someone just replacing the caps.

And then again I could be way off base here.

ZYGI

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Lon on 03/24/11 at 22:23:15

Wow, it's hard to believe a Mk III could be improved on!  I love the sound of mine as is. Not tempted to V-Cap.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by JLM on 03/24/11 at 22:36:16

Don't tell Steve (because I really want to buy one someday) but the Torii Mk III is way underpriced IMO.  (But that is one of the charms for consumers that stumble onto cottage industry gems.)

I'm not saying he's over charging for the V-caps, just in a backhanded way trying to say the Torii (I'm sure) must be really good if that's what it takes to better it (and reminiscing).

mac5u: thought I found Steve stating it somewhere in the forums (I can barely read your yellow font).

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 03/26/11 at 00:49:47

JLM,

I took off the "yellow" color.  It works well on my monitor but I did not think how it might appear on other monitors.

I haven't read through all of Steve's comments but he does write in the Designer Notes for the MKII that tweakers should just leave the coupling caps alone.  

Still, it would be nice to hear from users who tried different caps.  Are there any out there?  Anyone?

Will the sound change?  Yes.  For the better?  ???  

Lon, if you aren't tempted to try the V-Caps, what Steve added to the MK III product page won't tempt you either.  


Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Lon on 03/26/11 at 01:28:18

I'm not tempted for several reasons. One. . . I don't want to return the amp, can't bear to be without, and I'm not gifted enough to perform that myself.  Two. . . The expense. . I mean I would be more tempted to try something else, say the more expensive Wyred DAC, than this expense. And third I've a fear that these caps might make the amp more detailed, more clinical if you will. I tend to prefer musicality to absolute detail, and I think the Torii is very well set up by Steve and I'm not wanting to change the signature in any way.

Plus. . . hundreds of hours to "burn in". . . I could do without that.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by lovethemusic on 03/27/11 at 21:06:11

VCAP guarantee's their caps for life, like DECWARE, confirming excellence/confidence, taking a GREAT AMP and making it one of the best amps available today.  These premium caps are only found in ultra high end gear and usually the most expensive gear on the planet. Break-in is what it is,  patience has its virtues as always. In the long run I am convinced that going with the VCAP is the way to go especially if buying the amp new, circumventing the the extra shipping fee's and extra most painful break-in period. Are they absolutely necessary NO, but in my case it seemed like a no brainer. If the amp sings like no other, maybe Steve will consider installing them in the ZP3 too.  I will post my findings.  One thing I like about the VCAP option is that if there are weak links in my system, they will jump right out and be easier to identify. Those pesky weak links, I don't like them.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by JLM on 03/27/11 at 21:43:25

I'd like an A/B comparison between fully broken in stock Torii Mk III versus the V-capped Torii Mk III.  Any takers?   8-)

I've spent more to mod equipment ($600 for a Squeeze Box 3 and $700 to have Bud Purvine EnABL my Fostex F200A drivers), but I feel that those were even bigger values.  I could be wrong.   ::)


Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by lovethemusic on 03/27/11 at 22:31:04

I look at the VCAP upgrade as a longterm value, to be enjoyed for a long time, with the highest of returns. The initial outlay on the surface may seem steep but as I said a great short and longterm value overall. These caps are VERY expensive to buy even at bulk prices. I'd wager they are the most expensive caps available, of course I am not certain of that by any means. To me building the foundation correctly, if there is such a thing in audio is the most important thing, and proper equipment matching. Then its really all in the details thereafter.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by lovethemusic on 04/21/11 at 02:51:06

Got my Zen Torii Mk III, w/ VCAPS, going thru break-in period now the sound changes daily, by the minute actually for the better. Interesting.http://www.decwarhttp://www.decware.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/yabb21/cheesy.gife.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/10.gifhttp://www.decware.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/yabb21/sad.gifhttp://www.decware.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/yabb21/lipsrsealed.gif

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Lon on 04/21/11 at 07:54:40

Congrats! Keep us posted.

Not sure where that link was supposed to go, but it didn't get there. . . .

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by lovethemusic on 04/21/11 at 15:27:06

Will do. So far the bass is fat and resolution is not good to be expected. The 88 db speaker I have may be marginal but can't tell yet ultimately. Hoping to get higher efficiency speakers if needed. Otherwise it goes fairly loud overall but nothing like my transistor amp did. Break in is what it is. Does anyone else have VCAPS in their Torii III?

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 05/21/11 at 01:11:25

Lovethemusic,

There is a new Torii Mk III with V-caps up for sale on AudiogoN.  Is it yours?  If so, was it not coming around for you as you had anticipated?

If not, well then, I think we are due for an update!

;D

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Chris K on 05/21/11 at 01:56:44

FS TORII is listed here as well http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1303931629

Karl is a local friend in Ohio. The amp is broken in and sounding very well. Great amp! Seller just has other projects that are more important right now.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 05/22/11 at 14:43:25

Sent Karl an email via AudiogoN.  I've posted elsewhere that I wanted to wait until Zen Fest before making any new purchasing decisions, but who knows....

::)


Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/22/11 at 14:53:50

Did you also see this one mac5u: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1311189930

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 05/22/11 at 15:19:57

Yeah, I did.  Thanks.  He is also selling the ZDAC.  I sent him an email about them both.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by will on 05/23/11 at 23:32:30

Hey guys, there seem to be a couple threads talking about the v-caps Torii. On one ...

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1305989115/5#5

Doug has V-Cap Torii and used the Esoteric breakin CD most of a few days and has amazing sound when he reported with only 3 weeks play. I decided to check the Esoteric CD out and just ordered one. The following review is an interesting story about the Isotek CD, which is apparently the precursor to the Esoteric one. It is used by Esoteric and Genesis on their own gear and reported to cut massive amounts of burnin time. I am all for that!

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/25/11 at 00:57:41

Thanks for that link Will. I received my shipping confirmation today for the Esoteric CD from Elusive Disc. I am looking forward to it.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by will on 05/25/11 at 02:43:28

Hey there Pale, I look forward to it too! I had one shipped form Galen Carol today. Isn't it amazing how connection with the internet can connect like-minded questers and be so useful? I love it!

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/25/11 at 02:51:06

Indeed, it is the connection of common interests that is one of the great features of the net. Looking forward to hearing your assessment of the disc.

Greg

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 05/31/11 at 15:14:00

This might be the most in-depth review of a Torii MK III with V-Caps so far.  The post itself begins on 04-30-11 but the thread itself, while short, is informative.  I don't think it is the same person who recently put up his V-Cap modded Torii for sale.  

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1283540711&openfrom&1&4#1

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/31/11 at 18:29:54

Michael, thank for the link. There is actually a ton of good info in that thread, including a post by Steve, an ERR owner review, someone who used to love Infinity speakers (like me), etc. This is what I tried to post in reply over there, but I had limits from the Audiogon system (I really do not like that site):


Quote:
I understand why a low profile designer/manufacturer, especially one a bit iconoclastic and with a dedicated fan base, might generate some of these impressions, but in my dealings with the Decware community, I believe these are inaccurate impressions. Many in the Decware user base have in fact been all over the map with product, and some might be relatively untested, but once seduced, stay seduced. ;-). I came to Decware late in life, having been a builder or owner of everything from Dynakits as a youngster to Carver to Quad (electronics and speakers), Linn, Infinity, Conrad-Johnson, Maggies, Acoustats, Transcendence, etc. I had small systems and monsters.

Unfortunately, owning or trying a lot of equipment does not necessarily make one an expert on anything. Exposure to live music, and learning to listen critically, are all one needs in my view, and there is plenty of that in the Decware base. Steve Deckert's focus on live music as a reference point, and his attention to room correction issues, along with his obsessiveness about value, are what got me going.  

I am an ardent headphone listener with thousands invested in multiple amps, cans, and custom IEMs. When I decided to re-enter "speaker land," I auditioned everything from Orions to Geddes to Salks,  every planar I could (I love them), and as many in between as I could find. I heard more "latest & greatest" than I literally could stomach. It was the mating of the Decware Taboo amp with my Audez'e LCD-2s that convinced me that Decware--which I had been looking at for over the last two years--was on to something.

If you are always on the eternal quest for the latest and greatest, the final infinitesimal, always elusive improvement, Decware is probably not your cup of tea. But if you knew the girl of your dreams the moment you met her, or prefer a 69 Lotus 7 over the latest Benz, Porsche or whatever (sorry, personal note there), or accept that the people you share it with are more important than the wine label, or that the authenticity of the musical experience is more pleasurable than the vapor deposited titanium faceplate, then take advantage of the 30-day trial and give it a whirl. You might enjoy the experience. 

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by kana813 on 05/31/11 at 20:03:06

Does anyone know if the TORII  Mk.III that Tone Audio is going to review has VCAPs?

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/31/11 at 20:07:17


Quote:
Does anyone know if the TORII  Mk.III that Tone Audio is going to review has VCAPs?

I don't, but I am inclined to prefer that it not. Would like to hear their assessment of the stock Torii. Just my preference.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Lon on 05/31/11 at 20:13:18

I don't think it does, if it did he'd probably have mentioned it in this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=244147&highlight=torii

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/31/11 at 20:19:12

Thanks for the thread reference Lon. I agree that, in that context, I think VCAPs would have been mentioned if they were in the unit. Looking forward to this review.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by will on 05/31/11 at 22:30:41

I posted this on Audiogon (pending moderator approval) ....1st post there I guess. Ah just another singer in the Decware choir!


Quote:
I understand the interest in comparing Decware to other stuff, but I, like many Decware users are either long-time audiophiles, DIYers or/and musicians….a crowd that is accustomed to critical listening. I personally prefer to compare Decware to life. This is not the same as comparing gear, but it is the most valid comparator I can think of. I just want it to feel as real as I can get it without breaking the bank. I also want a certain level of flexibility within this "realness." This requires that special balance of detail, liquidity, tonal balance, weight, definition, openness and all those other things we try to describe sound we love with. But those things are never enough…..it needs that special indescribable quality that makes me happy and amazed when I listen. The final determinant: does it suck me in to the music.... am I fully engaged and captivated by the music? And this can't happen unless it sounds and feels extremely lucid and complete.

As to whether the Torii is too detailed. The amp is very detailed in every respect  due to its quality, simple and synergistic design….it even uses regulator tubes in parallel for power filters. But is also liquid, slightly warm, and has deep and detailed bass….not cold. All delivered with speed and open, harmonically textured definition. If you look at the Decware forum, you will not find many Torii posts wanting more bass. For more, this amp taught us that more room treatment may be needed to utilize the amazing bass it offers. Anyway, I would call the detail real, not hard or clinical.

You also have five sets of tubes you can roll, so not to worry if the voicing from Decware (which is very good) needs adjustment to your tastes. It is a tribute to how revealing the amp is that all of them make big differences in my system. Even a 50s-60s tungsol OB3 reg compared to Sylvania OB3s of the same period are similar, but real choices…not to mention more apparent tubes like many available 6-type input tubes. And with the bass pots, treble cut knobs, bias and impedance switches, Decware starts us off well, but gives a lot of flexibility to tailor the amp to tastes.

Not that I want the amp to gather too much attention as it takes a while to get stuff as it is, but this might answer the question about Decware going to shows....it appears that they have more than enough to do as it is!

And yes I am biased, and glad I found them. Their design work suits my ears and budget.

Happy Listening!

Will

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 05/31/11 at 23:10:52

Excellent post Will. I wish Decware nothing but more success, but I also don't want to increase Torii waiting times. ;-)

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by kana813 on 06/01/11 at 07:26:15

TP/Jeff's initial impressions posted on audiocircle:

"It's a really special amplifier...

Quite possibly the best EL 34 amp I've heard.  All the qualities of my favorite amps rolled into one!"


Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by will on 06/01/11 at 14:15:11

Thanks Kana....Great signature!

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 06/02/11 at 03:49:16

It doesn't look as if the Torii MK III made it into the current issue of Tone Audio.  I am glad the reviewer is giving the amp a chance to break in.  I looked at the thread over on Steve Hoffman's forum and saw Steve soliciting user input re tube-rolling.  I am a bit surprised he didn't come here.  There are some excellent tube-rolling posts on this forum.  Someone should email him their thoughts before he finishes the review and it goes to press.


Will and Greg -- Nice posts over at AudiogoN.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Lon on 06/02/11 at 03:56:41

Personally, I think he should review the amp with stock tubes. That would provide a reference for others.

But I doubt he spent any time at all with stock tubes.

Anyway it will be interesting to read his review as he's big into the high dollar bling thing.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 06/02/11 at 04:08:33

Thanks Michael. Looks like my post got chopped down by 2/3. Ah well.

Lon, I agree. I would rather read--and I think the vast majority of people unfamiliar with Decware would be better served by reading--a review of stock tubes. That would be the Decware voice.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by will on 06/02/11 at 05:01:28

Thanks Mac. Greg's Agon post got chopped and mine got doubled....sort of. I agree that stock tubes would be the best. This is the way the amp was made and it would be a better service as a review if the stock were used. It'll sound great.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by kana813 on 06/02/11 at 08:01:17

I guess only Steve(?) knows what he sent TP/Jeff for review.

I agree that a review with the stock tubes would be the best introduction to Decware for TP's readers.

I'm hoping TP/Jeff does compare the TORII MK III to the other high end
amps he has access to.

After TP/Jeff, I think Steve should send a TORII MK III to Art Dudley at Stereophile to see how it stacks up against his favorite Shindo amps.




Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 06/03/11 at 02:00:22

After TP/Jeff, I think Steve should send a TORII MK III to Art Dudley at Stereophile to see how it stacks up against his favorite Shindo amps.

Fat chance.  Now, I am only repeating what I have read elsewhere but Stereophile purportedly does not accept equipment for review unless the manufacturer has an established dealer network.  

If I am mistaken, my appologies.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 06/03/11 at 02:57:52

Up to a point, there is some merit in the goal of such a policy. If the goal is to make sure that a designer/manufacturer is sound, reputable, and reliable, that would be one surrogate, but what about the rather significant number of manufacturers who sell direct? Ohm comes to mind as an example of a long-time manufacturer that sells direct with a very generous in-home trial policy. So, if that policy is exclusive, it is a disservice to readers. If it is but one of several alternative benchmarks, it would be tolerable.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 06/05/11 at 00:16:19

This "policy", again, this is just what I have read, has long been a source of aggravation for fans of smaller manufacturers, especially direct manufacturers, who make high quaility equipment and don't advertise.  Lack of advertising support is often whispered about as one reason why products don't get reviewed.  I can't count how many times I would like to have seen Stereophile review a speaker from Salk Sound, AudioKinesis, Ohm, or Decware, or an amp from Decware, Odyssey, or Response Audio.  In fact, at least one offering from each of Decware's product lines would be very interesting.

Greg, one online publisher who apparently doesn't have those restrictions is 6moons.com.  Next to AD, I would like to see Srajan Ebaen review Decware.  He often times drives me to distraction with his meandering sometimes dense prose; neverthess, he loves to drill down and his reviews are very extensive.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 06/05/11 at 01:14:48

Yeah, the writing at 6moons often reminds me of high school purple prose ("if I sound dense, obtuse, murky, and mysterious, perhaps people will regard me as meaningful"). Undisciplined writing is fine for coffee house poetry or beer bong romances, but it does little for technical or auditory elucidation of fine distinctions between equipment and sounds. However, they did a nice writeup of the ZDAC. And I think they did one on the original Triode, right?  Would love to see a Torii review. And of course, with my choice of the Ltra, I am hoping to see some in-depth reviews of that.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by lovethemusic on 06/06/11 at 00:35:29

,Well I'm back. My Torii Mk. III w/ V Caps is finally broken in. And no the one on Audiogon that is or was for sale is not mine.  I did email that guy to ask why he was selling and he told me he needed more power for his speakers then I saw the speakers he mentioned up for sale. Not sure what his case is but he's having a hard time figuring out what he's doing I'd wager.
I don't have anything to compare my V Capped Torii against so I really don't know what to say other then the amp has a wonderfully musical quality to it and seems to amaze me most of the time, especially when listening to records, which is nearly all the time because there is no CD player in the system and I don't miss that one bit. I do however miss the music on my rather large CD collection. I finally got out some old speakers I had in the attic that have 91db efficiency and the amp likes these well enough. I sold my SF auditors  and it's been smooth sailing ever since the amp broke in. Which BTW at times made me think the amp was literally broken. It sounded that bad at times. A solid 1000 hours or more to break it in. That is about it, a GREAT AMP and an even GREATER VALUE. Look forward to new speakers when feasible any ideas???

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 06/06/11 at 01:14:28

lovethemusic, I got the same response when I contacted that fellow. And certainly, when I saw the speakers he was selling (fairly inefficient electrostats, I believe), I could see where he did not have the best matchup possible. But as you noted, I think he was having a hard time figuring out his strategy.

Glad to hear the Mk III is sounding so good. As for speakers, well.......

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by kana813 on 06/06/11 at 06:55:36

Both TORII MK IIIs listed on Agon have been sold.

Once again, has anyone compared the TORII MK III to Art Dudley's favorite Shindo amps.




Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 06/06/11 at 14:09:10

I have looked high and low for such or a similar comparison. Unless someone here on the forums has done so, it would appear not to be the case. That is a review I would enjoy reading.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by mac5u on 06/07/11 at 00:56:52


Quote:
Look forward to new speakers when feasible any ideas???


ltm --  what speakers do you currently have, what are you looking to change sound-wise, and what is your budget? Info likes that help you get more on-target responses.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by bumcat on 11/13/11 at 06:15:16

I thought I'd weigh in on this as well. It's a long journey, these V-caps, but worth it in my opinion. I'm using a Torii mkII from May 2009 and in October 2010 I modified the amp with V-Cap coupling caps (note I used the CuTF caps, the copper-foil V-caps, not the tin-foil V-caps). Some background: my amps are 2 years old and have been trouble-free. I added the CCE/Hazen grid mod about 1.5 years ago, then the V-caps about 13 months ago. I knew these would take a long time to break-in....and they did, right at about 1000 hrs by my count. I actually tracked the hours each day for the first several months. After that I didn't play the amps quite as much. I never thought the amps sounded bad while the caps were breaking in (note that the CuTF version of these caps is rumored to sound a bit less clinical), but....what I've always heard when installing a new part is that the amp (or pre-amp) for first week or two, will give you a glimpse of what the final sound will be, then the break-in starts and the sound changes over time until the break-in is complete. The "glimpse" about a year ago with these caps was revealing. The amp, for a few days and only at times, opened-up like I've never heard. Then, for the next 12 months it constantly changed, never sounding harsh, but just OK and somewhat unexciting. The challenge with something that takes this long is patience and remembering what the amp sounded like stock and also right after installing the V-caps. After 6-10 months I thought the amps sounded good, but I recalled them sounding magical, though only briefly in October 2010 right after installing the V-Caps and, after several months, you begin to wonder if this "is it". Well, after 12 months (and I'm sure at least 1000 hours) they are finally settling in. At this point the positive day-to-day improvement in the sound is unmistakable. I can only say that, for me, these caps have now proven to be worth the wait. The Torii simply sounds much better in just about every way than it did stock. Bass is deeper and more tuneful. Vocals are better separated and articulated. The sound is more dynamic and more exciting, yet also more relaxing to listen to. The sound is simply more alive and lifelike in every way. I'd like to add that I've not changed anything else in my system over this time, so I know that the improvement is solely in the amp. I encourage those with patience and a desire to really hear all that this amp can produce to try these caps.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by macony velson on 11/14/11 at 06:43:19

If Torii-III will offer free to air, it will great news for Torii-III lovers.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by will on 11/15/11 at 03:19:32

Wow! A year to break in caps to optimal performance makes me feel sick. Isn't there a way to "cook" the caps to get you there faster?

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Tom Nagel on 11/17/11 at 13:12:43

VCAP upgrade is provide by many sites.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Brett on 11/18/11 at 03:18:19

My V-caps took about 2 months with regular listening to fully break in. They continue to season for a long time after, but after a month of heavy use they should be 95% there.

You will know right off if you going to like what V-caps do.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by Pale Rider on 12/19/11 at 00:28:06

My Toriis seem to have stabilized. But then, I suppose there is no way to know for sure they won't change further. I have made a point of swapping the two amps between front and rear channels, because the rear channels do not get the same workout as the fronts. Of course, I have zero point of reference to compare my Toriis to those without V-caps, but I will say that there doesn't seem to be any harshness in the system, while there is remarkable depth and detail.

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by vmax on 03/07/12 at 05:48:43

I realize that,in most solid state stereos, the caps can last for around maybe `20 years with degraded performance at that point of their life, what's the life of the caps in the torrii mkIII?  At that point in time I would upgrade to vcaps, I just ordered about100+ caps to refresh My carver tfm 35 amp, they are needed, sounds are slighltly sort of starting to blast out, I think it's still worth My while, and is a very nice sounding amplifier. the vcaps upgrade seems like a winner for Me in the torrii later on.....

Title: Re: VCAP's in TORII MK III
Post by nico on 06/01/12 at 17:35:38

My SE84C amp sounds more detailed and natural from the moment I replaced the stock coupling caps with V-caps CUTF.
I wish I had done this earlier. I guess that over time I'll be even more happy.
My 2 cents.
Nico

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