SPEAKER FORUMS >> DM944/945/946 >> HT

Message started by deucekazoo on 03/01/11 at 13:33:39

Title: HT
Post by deucekazoo on 03/01/11 at 13:33:39

Is anyone running these guys for home theater. I was thinking of running them for the left, right and center. Just wondering if anyone is and what you think compared to others. I need something off the floor but want a huge soundstage.

Title: Re: HT
Post by Pale Rider on 03/01/11 at 20:48:26

Funny you posted this today. I was wondering about the construction of a HT setup. I mothballed my old one a few years ago, but lately, my wife and I have been watching more movies at home, and it was she, yes she, who said: "it's too bad our home system doesn't sound half as good as your headphones." This got me to thinking, since I recently made the plunge into Decware, about using the ERRs at home for both my 2.0 and my 5.1/7.1 listening/watching. I guess I was thinking of using the little speakers as side/rear speakers, and was wondering how they tonally matched up with the ERRs or the ZOBs. IOW, do Decware speakers mix & match well?

Title: Re: HT
Post by ZYGI on 03/03/11 at 01:28:28


The DM's work as well or better than any speaker out there, its size. Just keep in mind they really do need to be sitting vertical to pull it off though.

The ERR's DM945's would be close enough to each others signature that it wouldn't draw attention to themselves in the mix. But you would be totally surprised, if you had a treated room, what just one pair of ERR's would do for surround sound. Its the most natural surround sound there is. Four just make it all the better.  If you were thinking the ZOB's the only drawback may be using a SS receiver with them, it might get a little fatiguing. A Decware amp, forget about it. With the ZOB's I would use the ERR's as surrounds.  

Title: Re: HT
Post by deucekazoo on 03/03/11 at 13:50:51

Thanks ZYGI. In my setup I would like to run 3 of the DMs up front and the center one would be vertical. If I had a dedicated room I would love to do 5 or 6 of the ERRs. But need to keep them small and off the ground.

Title: Re: HT
Post by Pale Rider on 03/03/11 at 23:15:22

Thanks ZYGI. I like the idea of 4 ERRs. I like the idea of the ZOB also, but the ERRs are really intriguing in this role. Wha would you recommend for center channel in such a construct?

Title: Re: HT
Post by mac5u on 03/06/11 at 04:25:18

If the DM945 is close enough to the ERR signature that it wouldn't draw attention to itself in the mix, in an otherwise 5.1 system employing ERRs, which of the two speakers would be better suited at anchoring the center channel to the screen: Another ERR or the DM?  

Will the optimal distance between speakers be significantly different using three ERRS across the front vs. using two ERRs and a DM945?

Title: Re: HT
Post by ZYGI on 03/07/11 at 14:11:19

Pale Rider,

Four ERR's would make an awesome set up for sure.  When I lived in the Phoenix area we tried four RL1.5's in an audio/ Home theater retailer. The look on their faces when they heard their room and their equipment was worth the price of admission. To see 5 guys jaws come unhinged was priceless.

With that said, I don't know if I would buy the center channel speaker first go around. That's if the new receivers have a phantom center channel option. (I haven't keep up with the new stuff) When I run just two in my room, my stereo set up and my brother in law probably could have spent the whole day looking for the rear channels. He was so shocked at the "surround sound" only to find out he was only listening to the front two speakers.

I say this because my speakers are 4-5 feet in front of my TV screen and me just sitting 5-6 feet back from the speakers and you cannot tell that there is no center channel speaker. The dialog is coming from the screen.

Another thing about the ERR's, while the bass doesn't get as low as if I had a sub woofer, the bass is realistic beyond belief. My wife hates the low bass from subs. While she hasn't complained once about the bass, I haven't been bothered by the fact that I don't have a sub in the mix, I don't miss it at all. Why this is, on the wifes part, I can't really say, but so far it works for both of us.


 I would have to say the ERR would make the best, That just makes the most sense. But for reasons above, I would try it first with out. The only problem I see going this route, if you were picky about the finish on the set of speakers, this could be a problem as one unit bought at a later time might not come close to the veneer on the first set. If I was to build a 5 channel set up for someone, I would have to order consecutive sheets so all 5 speakers would have the same veneer. But that is just an aesthetics issue, not a sonic issue.

I'm finishing up a pair of ERR's today, and have my set in the room, I'll give it a go tonight and try the center speaker in the mix. Unfortunately this will be all SS, but it will be doable. I think I can take it for one night.


Title: Re: HT
Post by deucekazoo on 03/07/11 at 15:34:05

Now I have a wild/weird idea. Would it be possible to hang the ERRs upside down from the ceiling as the main L and R? Did you guys ever try this? I wonder how it would sound or change the sound.
Making bookshelf ERRs!!!

Title: Re: HT
Post by ZYGI on 03/07/11 at 22:26:57


Not a weird idea at all. If I remember correctly, when I got to Steve's place for Decfest he had an old pair of RL1.5 hanging from his sofitt     for rears.

In our shop in AZ I hung two upside down in the middle of the room, so everyone could hear it equally from both sides of the room. I just added an additional tweeter for the guys on the other side of the room. I used to joke around with people to tell me where the speakers were, no one, even when standing directly below on of the RL's looked up, they were looking all around the room, but never up.

What would be really cool, is if you were finishing a basement room and your house was built with trusses which usually have a pretty good depth from ceiling of basement to floor above and frame them right in before drywalling.

Not a bad idea at all......

Title: Re: HT
Post by deucekazoo on 03/08/11 at 14:08:34

Well these would be placed in the main living room, but I do have an attic above this room. Hmmmm, you given me some ideas. In the front just hang them normal but in the back build them into the ceiling a little so they are farther away from the coutch. Can you see the look on peoples faces when they walk in.  :D  ;D

Title: Re: HT
Post by mac5u on 03/10/11 at 00:25:48


So, how did the listening session go last night?


You seem to think two ERRs are pretty sufficient for HT duty.  I am not a bass-head but I do like to feel the visceral impact of LFE when appropriate.  Hard to believe you don't think a sub is necessary but I'll have to try for myself.  A true test for me is the scene from War of the Worlds when the machines rise out of the gorund and the their terrible horns are heard.  And again, in the early scenses of Master and Commander when the French privateer fires on the HMS Surprise out of the fog.  If the speakers can create the excitment of that canon shot and do a good job of with the WOTW scene, man, oh man, I may not be able to wait until Decfest to try these speakers.
[Note to self:  Must - exercise - discipline.]

And if two ERRs are usually sufficient in your mind, I can only imagine what two HR1s with their lower extension must do. That makes it a tough choice:  Roughly 3 ERRs for the price of a pair of HR1s.

You write your speakers are 4-5 feet in front of your TV screen and you sit 5-6 feet back from the speakers.  How far are you from the back wall?  I am pretty sure my main media room is not as deep as yours because my TV is hung on the long wall.  I figured I needed the wider space to accomodate the seating arrangements.  It turns out that hasn't been necessary but spending money to have the TV relocated has been a lower priority for me.   I doubt I'd get the same effect of the phantom channel you get with my speakers close to the front wall.  Thoughts?

Thinking about multiple ERRs again, roughly what size is the sheet of veneer you get to finish ERRs?  If one had plans for 5 but started with two, that would mean ordering enough for 5 but transporting the other veneer home from your place (I am about 90 minutes from you).  If I decided that two were enough, I would only be out the extra sheets of veneer.

Title: Re: HT
Post by ZYGI on 03/11/11 at 03:54:56


Not so well, to be honest, I never got to try it. Had what I thought was a problem with a Radial driver, as some song I was listening to showed some distortion, it just took me awhile to figure out it was the recording and not the driver. The distortion sounded just like a rubbing voice coil. Which is the biggest problem I have building the radial driver.  The song was  Coles Whalen, Nothing is to much CD, "So It Is"

Personally I think the LFE is just what it is,  LF Effects, which just don't sound natural to me at all. Just a bunch of boom and  rumble. These are things for the most part I haven't heard in our natural surroundings.

I sit about 3-4 feet from the back wall. But you have to remember I have a pretty well treated room. Not finished with it all, probably never will be finished. The room is only 11'-6" wide and 16'-6" deep with an 8 foot ceiling. The first two feet are two different types of bass traps and some storage/bass traps behind the speakers.

We usually buy 4' X 8' sheets of veneer, to do 5 speakers I would get 4' X 10' sheet, this would give you enough to do all 5 out of the same sheet.

How close to the front wall are you talking about, no speaker, for the most part wants to be to close to the front wall, I'd say the closest you could go with the ERR's would be 16",  24" would be better.


Title: Re: HT
Post by mac5u on 03/12/11 at 16:40:28


In this room, the mix is 80% HT and 20% music.

My room is 17' 6" x 15' 5" x 8'2".  For convenience of family members, I set up the flat-screen TV along the long wall.  The tweeter measures about 2'3" to the front wall.  The speaker cabinet itself is roughly 17" deep and 16" at its widest point.  The main listening position is about 18" from the back wall and 11 feet from the speakers although I rarely get very good sound when I am watching movies or listening to music with other family members because I usually sit way off axis when I am there.  This mostly is an accomodation to other family members present and is one of the reasons I am drawn to the idea of radials.

For the rear surrounds, while they would not be exactly tucked into a corner, pushing them out 16" from the boundaries would be pretty tough.  I may have to re-orient the room completely but I am just not ready to do that just yet although taking care of the room really should be first priority followed by speaker placement.  

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