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SUPPORT FORUMS FOR DECWARE SPEAKERS >> NFX >> NFX Design Notes are Here
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Message started by Steve Deckert on 07/23/06 at 02:13:24

Title: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Steve Deckert on 07/23/06 at 02:13:24

The NFX design notes can be previewed here:

http://www.decware.com/paper83.htm

And the plans will be online soon, as they are finished.

Steve

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Doorman on 07/23/06 at 03:14:18

Steve: Are these cabs for an 8" driver only? (I just happen to have a well broken-in pair of FE167E's lying around!)
                                                             Don

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/23/06 at 14:51:35

This is right on time, since I have 2 pairs of 206's that need a home.

The thing I really like is how Steve describes the sound as very big and open due to the venting out of the sides.  That means that the change I've made to my tombstone horn idea should achieve a similar "big" sound with the horn mouth being around the entire perimeter of the cab.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Chris K on 07/23/06 at 21:58:43

How'bout horn loading the six slots on the NFX!! NOW THAT WOULD BE AN INSANELY DIFFICULT BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!! :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by J_Rock on 07/23/06 at 23:00:28

Looking at the plans, I don't think the added complexity of hornloading will be necessary. lol

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/23/06 at 23:04:32


Chris K wrote on 07/23/06 at 21:58:43:
How'bout horn loading the six slots on the NFX!! NOW THAT WOULD BE AN INSANELY DIFFICULT BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!! :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/


Chris,
That's kind of what I'm planning with the tombstone horn with the front view perimeter split up into 4 horn segments. This will give me a mouth area of almost half an Imperial but in a compact size cab.  The build won't be too difficult, 3 large panels and a number of interior dividers all 3" wide.  Sure there will be a number of odd angles, but the short 3" glueing length will permit imperfect but strong joints using one of the poly glues due to the strong support of the long dimensions having perfect joints.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Chris K on 07/24/06 at 02:02:46

I can't wait to see it John (the modded tombstone)! You're probably as much (maybe more) of an experimenter that Steve and Bob. You seem to have come up with some unique ideas. So I've absolutly avoided putting my SI coaxes in even a flat board and I've had them since last Nov. I think. What should I put em in? One of your designs?
I wanna set of NFXs now. I'm shooting for a record breaking collection of Hi-Fi speakers in the houshold. Should be 6 0r 7 different pair by next year. Hows that sound? :-/ Pretty good I'd say. What are you listening to most these days?

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Doorman on 07/24/06 at 02:41:50

Chris: I can safely say that 6 or 7 pairs of speakers in some households is "normal"!
But it is a nice collection!
                                                           Don

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/24/06 at 03:06:45

I don't want to hijack Steve's NFX thread anymore.  I can't wait for his plans to become available as this is something I want to build, especially since I already have drivers for it.

I'll update my tombstone thread once I have some results.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Manowar on 07/24/06 at 04:43:11

Hey Steve,

How would the Visaton B200 or the Fostex F200A fare in this cabinet design?

Thanks,
Manowar ???

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by AudioNirvana on 07/24/06 at 20:21:45

Thats exactly what i was about to ask, how would B200's work in the NFX? Hmmm, this may well become next summers project, depending on feedback given about the complexity of the build.

Its an awsome design, and something id really like to try, however id have to cut all the angles with a jig-saw (skill-saw) and that worries me. The WO was bad enough.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by SoundOfMusic on 07/25/06 at 17:04:38

Hello!

I am also wondering which drivers would work well in the cabinet?
Only horn drivers?
Or are OB-drivers with high Q are also possible?

Any guidelines for driver selection available?
Which changes would be necessary to adapt the cabinets to drivers with different parameters or even size?

Many thanks in advance!

SOM

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Rap on 07/25/06 at 23:20:07

the hills are alive with the ....  ;)

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/26/06 at 01:42:54

I got my NFX plans and have been studying them.  I think I will build a scale model first to check the fit of my cutting angles and dimensions.  I have finally cleared out and reorganized my shop area so I am ready to go. It should be a fun build.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by franksmith on 07/26/06 at 02:10:24

I'm interested also.

I have a spare pair of fe206em ready to be installed.

I would probably build them using straight angle.

On the plan, is there construction note for the 8 degree one and the straight angle one ?

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/26/06 at 02:31:37

The plans are kind of tricky to find.  There's a link at the bottom of Steve's design notes linked in his first post of the thread.

Before cutting wood, we need to get a clarification.  As drawn, the  A brace won't fit at the joints of the rear panel with rear left and and rear right panels.  It looks like the A brace will need an additional 45 degree angle cut along the outer portion of its rear end.

I'll also make the adjustment to make the joint of the 3 rear panels a simple butt joint.  The increased surface area of the angled joint should make it plenty strong without adding a complex joint.


Lastly, what exactly are "poly foam spheres"?  Are we talking about rough surface or smooth surface styrofoam type balls available at hobby stores or are we talking about some type of foam rubber?  If we're talking about polystyrene balls, which aren't very absorbent, then rounded chunks of foam rubber may be the first cab tweak.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by SoundOfMusic on 07/26/06 at 11:12:59

cannot find the width of the front baffle on the plans!?

please help

SOM

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/26/06 at 14:05:40


SoundOfMusic wrote on 07/26/06 at 11:12:59:
cannot find the width of the front baffle on the plans!?

please help

SOM


Just add up the rear dimensions shown.  Steve likes to make people think sometimes.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/26/06 at 16:19:29


John in CR wrote on 07/26/06 at 02:31:37:
Before cutting wood, we need to get a clarification.  As drawn, the  A brace won't fit at the joints of the rear panel with rear left and and rear right panels.  It looks like the A brace will need an additional 45 degree angle cut along the outer portion of its rear end.

Lastly, what exactly are "poly foam spheres"?  Are we talking about rough surface or smooth surface styrofoam type balls available at hobby stores or are we talking about some type of foam rubber?  If we're talking about polystyrene balls, which aren't very absorbent, then rounded chunks of foam rubber may be the first cab tweak.


I interpret brace A as drawn in the callout, without a 45 degree angle at the rear, as correct.  I think the 45 degree line you are viewing is the backside of braces B which are at different elevations than braces A.  I see brace A as setting flat end grain (8 degree crosscut) against the back panel.

The ball surface texture question is one I have too.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/26/06 at 22:55:48

RMT,

I see what you mean, but that leaves too little surface area for my tastes in the joint of the rear panel and P3's.  I'd rather cut the 45 out of the end of the A brace or chisel out a space on the P3's for the A brace.  Either way I will join the A brace to both the rear panel and the P3 on its side.  Also, I don't care about the end grain of the rear panel being exposed, so I'll definitely make it wider and join with more surface area to the P3.

Lastly, I'm going to have to think about the 8 degree rake long and hard.  I can see that it's going to be a real construction pain and more than likely, I'll just construct it square with some extra length at both ends of the full length panels.  Then cut the rake angle off the top and bottom when I'm finished.  The only possible detriment I see is that the B braces won't be perfectly horizontal or flush with the top and bottom.  Maybe do only the B braces at the 8 degree angle?  I don't see how anyone is possibly going to get a perfect fit on those P2 and P3 panels (you need an 8 degree angle on something at a 45 degree angle, so you have an odd shallow angle in 2 dimensions for those panels.  I'd have to revisit the math involved to even figure out the angles, much less cut them).

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Chris K on 07/27/06 at 03:59:05


rmt wrote on 07/26/06 at 16:19:29:
The ball surface texture question is one I have too.


Think "NERF" ball, you know the soft foam kiddie play balls about 6 or 7 inches in diameter?

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/27/06 at 04:56:27


John in CR wrote on 07/26/06 at 22:55:48:
 I don't see how anyone is possibly going to get a perfect fit on those P2 and P3 panels (you need an 8 degree angle on something at a 45 degree angle, so you have an odd shallow angle in 2 dimensions for those panels.  I'd have to revisit the math involved to even figure out the angles, much less cut them).


John,

The applied math here is using compound angle formulas.  Imagine trying to build a four sided box that is narrower at the base than the top like a decorative flower pots.  If you know the angle going up and how many sides you have,  a compound angle formula will tell you the correct bevels and miters for cutting.  I found the formulas browsing woodworking sites as many have fabrication tips and the compound angle question is a popular one.  I will say that one must still be careful about when and how to apply the formulas.

As a check I went through the plans and sketched each piece in two dimensions.  I then created a third view of the true angle of the bevels which also happens to be a view that is an end view showing the true width of the piece.  I used basic trig to transfer the projections onto the 3rd view and the angles just jump out at you.  I really need to buy some CAD software, but old habits die hard.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/27/06 at 06:19:09

My off the cuff guess would be 8 degrees divided by the square root of 2, but correct or not, I have no interest in trying to cut it.  I'll take the easy route.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Manowar on 07/27/06 at 13:52:23

On the rear corners of the base it looks like round protrusions, can anybody clarify this? And these 6" poly balls, are they just resting on each other? where would I get these?

Manowar  ???

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/29/06 at 21:44:13

Well I completed a good part of my scale model. I made it full sized.  I am quite pleased with the results as all the pieces fit together nicely.   I used some scrap MDF from a home entertainment center I had been saving for a project.  It was not too difficult to cut the bevels and miters after studying the plans.  I checked my math with projection drawings so I was real sure the parts would fit.  They did.  This is not to say I cut the parts correctly each time. I want to emphasize here that the miscuts were the variety where I put the piece in the crosscut saw backwards or upside down from the correct way.  Very easy to do if you get complacent.  I initially cut the tricky ones much longer than needed and then cut them down to size after a first cut to check fit against the other part.  I then could use the same saw setup for the opposite end.  I cut the PL-xs from a four foot section and just worked it down from there.  This method works well for getting a length of stock that has a good cross section from the long rips.  The beginning and ending of a long rip sometimes lose constant cross section so if you cut a longer piece you will have a better chance of getting a good part to cross cut.

Also use the front as a template to set the length of the side pieces. Otherwise you will not have a flat top.

I would have finished the model but it was just too darn hot out there. I had to cut and assemble outside because of the MDF dust.  That stuff is nasty. Tough on your saw blades too. I have had a mask on since yesterday in this heat.  Yuck!  All my tools are on rollers so I move them outside for cutting and welding.  Did I mention already it is really hot outside.

My next step is to get some birch plywood to build a set to use. I will use the model pieces as a template for saw setups and as a guide to keep the cutting R/L pieces organized.  Fun build.  I have decided to go with real solid maple or cherry instead.  btw, I will not use MDF again.  My wife was not pleased with the dust.  Wood chips she does not mind but MDF dust - NO!

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 07/29/06 at 22:28:26

RMT,

How much to do an extra pair while you're at it? :D

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Manowar on 07/30/06 at 18:16:13

Has anyone figured out what the baffle width is?

Also when looking at the top of the plan, are the side ports open between P2-R on the right side and and the back verticle panel R and same as the left side P2-L and R?

No dimensions given for pedestal and top and bottom boards! will these be available later or do we just have to try and build it with the info we have?

Manowar ???

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/30/06 at 22:13:24


Manowar wrote on 07/30/06 at 18:16:13:
Has anyone figured out what the baffle width is?

Also when looking at the top of the plan, are the side ports open between P2-R on the right side and and the back verticle panel R and same as the left side P2-L and R?

No dimensions given for pedestal and top and bottom boards! will these be available later or do we just have to try and build it with the info we have?

Manowar ???


What piece are you referring to as the baffle?

The opening in the back is along braces B between p2 and p3.

The dimensions are all there.  Look again.  

However, the rear spikes are drawn in a different location in the front view than the plan view.  Front view shows rear spikes outside the speaker width and the spikes are clearly inside the 4.3 inch square in the rear.  No big deal it just illlustrates you can put them where you want.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Steve Deckert on 07/30/06 at 23:01:47

The poly foam balls are what we grew up knowing as NERF balls.  Now available by the name POOF balls.  I got them from Walmart, but have also found them online.

Steve

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Manowar on 07/30/06 at 23:27:50


rmt wrote on 07/30/06 at 22:13:24:
What piece are you referring to as the baffle?

The dimensions are all there.  Look again.  


I was referring to the baffle the speaker mounts too!...OK you have to add the dim. of R which is 3.75 plus the 4.3 x2 for the dashed square for a total of 12.35"


:'(

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Manowar on 07/30/06 at 23:33:15

I still don't understand what the orange shaded area of the top view is supposed to show?

I understand the front and side view of the orange area...a base with three spikes!

Can someone clarify,

Thanks!

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/31/06 at 00:04:41


Manowar wrote on 07/30/06 at 23:33:15:
I still don't understand what the orange shaded area of the top view is supposed to show?

I understand the front and side view of the orange area...a base with three spikes!

Can someone clarify,

Thanks!


You asked about a baffle before. It was not getting into my head that the baffle is the plate the speaker is attached too.   :'(

The orange part in the top view is the same part as the front and side views. The only visible part of the orange base in the top view are the semicircle Mickey mouse ears at the very back end of the bottom plate.  Study the side view closely and you will see a vertical line on the orange base just to the left and down from the lowest brace B where it is labeled as "B".  This vertical line is the front intersection line of the semicircle with the square portion of the bottom plate.

I also notice that the spikes are in a different position in each of the three views.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 07/31/06 at 00:24:22


John in CR wrote on 07/29/06 at 22:28:26:
RMT,

How much to do an extra pair while you're at it? :D


How about, instead, you just send me those  "This is right on time, since I have 2 pairs of 206's that need a home. "  ;D


Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by AudioNirvana on 07/31/06 at 11:04:16

Anyone got any pictures?

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by RFZ_Quest on 08/01/06 at 01:04:27

Here are some photo's of the NFX cabinets with the drivers removed. These are waiting for review once the new drivers and foam balls arrive.





Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by RFZ_Quest on 08/01/06 at 01:22:31




Forgive the debris on the speaker as I forgot to wipe them off prior to taking photo. *It is not damage.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Manowar on 08/01/06 at 01:40:42

Hey RFZ_Quest,

I am not seeing any pictures!

Anyone else having these problems?

Manowar ;D

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by RFZ_Quest on 08/01/06 at 02:38:40



These photos are of the original prototype NFX designs built prior to the blueprint version. Note that these are differant in actual appearance but internaly they conform to specifications.

Cabinets are shown without drivers or hardware installed for detail. The Decware modified *(Fostex FE206E) now known as the DFR-8 is currently installed within these cabinets.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by John in CR on 08/01/06 at 05:15:08


rmt wrote on 07/31/06 at 00:24:22:
How about, instead, you just send me those  "This is right on time, since I have 2 pairs of 206's that need a home. "  ;D


RMT,

Once I invest in shipping and taxes to get drivers into Costa Rica, it makes no sense selling them to be shipped somewhere else.  I like having four anyway for comparitive purposes as I begin to mod them and build enclosures.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by buggers on 08/01/06 at 14:47:39

Whenever you can't see the picture, Right click the picture, Properties, highlight the link in that window, Right click Copy, Then paste in a new web browser page. ;)

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Steve Deckert on 08/02/06 at 00:03:44


RFZ_Quest wrote on 08/01/06 at 02:38:40:
For some reason this third party source for uplinking photo's has been a problem for some. They show up with my server but when refresh is hit, they show red x'd blocks! Try right clicking on the mouse and click on show picture. I could always transfer these pictures from my web domain as that has never been a problem. If everyone is having this difficulty, let me know and I will transfer the uplink from my website.

BTW: I had several more pictures of these cabinets posted but they obviously were deleted by the eye in the sky.



Deleted them because I thought they were empty posts...

Sorry.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Steve Deckert on 08/02/06 at 00:04:44

I just looked at the prints and I'll be damn, the width measurement is gone!  It is 12.5 inches btw.  I'll update the print soon.

Steve

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 08/02/06 at 00:59:19


AudioNirvana wrote on 07/31/06 at 11:04:16:
Anyone got any pictures?


I took pictures but my net service is incomprehensible for posting accessible pictures online.......  Ok, I figured it out.  Click web site for pics.


Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Chris K on 08/02/06 at 01:48:20


Steve Deckert wrote on 08/02/06 at 00:04:44:
I just looked at the prints and I'll be damn, the width measurement is gone!  It is 12.5 inches btw.  I'll update the print soon.

Steve


Steve,
Sometimes when I convert artwork files (vector) to PDF files for some reason text disappears indescriminatly on the page/layout. That may be the case here. No biggie just computers. :'(

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by DirtDawg on 08/02/06 at 09:33:53


rmt wrote on 08/02/06 at 00:59:19:
I took pictures but my net service is incomprehensible for posting accessible pictures online.  Ok, I figured it out.  Click web site for pics.

Nice work!

What kind of glue are you using with the prefinished  MDF? Or do you just remove the finish at the joints?

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 08/02/06 at 16:14:28


DirtDawg wrote on 08/02/06 at 09:33:53:
Nice work!

What kind of glue are you using with the prefinished  MDF? Or do you just remove the finish at the joints?


Thanks.  If this model was going to be a final build I would have used construction adhesive on the joints and then used real wood veneer over the whole speaker.

It's only a full sized scale model held together by a few brad nails. I am going to disassemble it to use as a cuttng pattern for the real project.  I built it to test my calculations and saw setup for accuracy.  They were, so the next step is getting material for the real build.  I plan on using maple or cherry, not MDF.  I would weld a steel box together before I used MDF again.

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by rmt on 08/12/06 at 16:15:06


Steve Deckert wrote on 08/02/06 at 00:04:44:
I just looked at the prints and I'll be damn, the width measurement is gone!  It is 12.5 inches btw.  I'll update the print soon.

Steve


Rear panel width 4.3 + 4.3 + 3.75 = 12.35 < 12.5.   ???   "B" braces could have a slight gap with wider panel.  Not that I think it really matters.  I used 12.35 in width on my template and the "B" braces were flush at the back and along the sides.  YMMV.  I am considering applying a cloth cover (grill) between PL2 and PL3 panels so I would want the "B" brace slightly indented anyway to fit a cloth grill flush on the outside.  I have not decided how to do this mod yet so I am kind of stuck at this point.  I also am wary of any obstruction the cloth grill could have to air flow.  

Title: Re: NFX Design Notes are Here
Post by Kim Bay Smidt on 09/21/06 at 22:19:12

I think the cabinet width should be 12.50".

The depth of the cabinet and the width of the back panel are slightly wrong in Steves drawing. ???

Now brace B will fit!  ;D

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