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Message started by Caintuck Randy on 02/08/06 at 19:07:43

Title: To say the least, the anticipation is building ...
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/08/06 at 19:07:43

The gent I share an office with at work is putting the finishing touches on the last project on his plate before he starts on my SO Imperials .....

A couple of nights ago, we hauled the 10 sheets of good quality 3/4" oak plywood that will be needed for the project into his woodshop.

The Imperials should fit very nicely in my listening room, exactly filling up the spaces between the edges of the center curtain and the side walls.





Of course, I will have to do away with my chic $12.00 designer floor lamps .....

I expect that the Imperials will work extremely well with the Parker Audio Behemoths or The Horns (as in the photo).

Based on what I heard at the most recent DecFest, this will be the end of my audio journey ..... and I want to offer in advance my heartfelt gratitude to Steve Deckert and Bob (Zygi) for their help and inspiration in making these wonderful speakers available to the readers of this forum ..... :)

Additional photos and comments to follow, as available .....

Randy


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 02/08/06 at 20:14:38

Er ? huh? the what the plans are availiable and I missed them?
gimme gimmie.

On another note, congratulations and that sounds awsome.
I can hardly wait for your impression of the beasts.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/08/06 at 20:43:20

Howdy gexter,

The "official plans" are not available yet.

The plans that I have are from this thread :

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Imperial;action=display;num=1130446667

My friend says that he can build them from these plans, and a phone call or two to Steve or Bob ..... :)

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 02/08/06 at 21:40:51


Caintuck Randy wrote on 02/08/06 at 19:07:43:
The gent I share an office with .......

Additional photos and comments to follow, as available .....

Randy





"The gent I share an office with at work is putting the finishing touches on the last project on his plate before he starts on my SO Imperials .....  "

This is awesome! Cool ..... the way it should be. Right now I'm looking forward to many detailed reports of how totally kicked you are able to keep your ..... well you told us all how bad these latest big boys from Steve are supposed to be and how they exceded your expectations ..... you said they sounded ..... I can only remember I needed a tissue ..... for my forehead, afterwards.

"A couple of nights ago, we hauled the 10 sheets of good quality 3/4" oak plywood that will be needed for the project into his woodshop."

Here I'm worried that you should have gotten 2 extras ..... just in case your buddy gets a little off on a cut or you can think of any way to improve the rigidity of ..... if you think you need 10, you should get 11 or 12 to be sure ..... worst case is you build a super solid base for them ..... or a better bass trap to address some of the ..... uhmm ..... anyway .....

"The Imperials should fit very nicely in my listening room, exactly filling up the spaces between the edges of the center curtain and the side walls."

For some reason I thought you were going to lay them down ..... as instructed ..... the same way Steve had his in the pix ..... I guess I'm just not considering all the options available when you have all the bass you could ever ..... the mouths go down right? ..... so you will be able to make some nice bass traps for the ceiling junctions ..... but, wait .....  you're out of plywood .....





"Of course, I will have to do away with my chic $12.00 designer floor lamps .....  "

Negative! Bad idea! The only problem with the lighting scheme is that the poles are too long ..... you just need to have the center five feet of extension removed by the same, really handy, buddy from work. The lamps will create interesting, romantic shadows and intense, illustrative highlights that spill out mysteriously across your new ..... just don't throw them out, yet!

"I expect that the Imperials will work extremely well with the Parker Audio Behemoths or The Horns (as in the photo)."

..... or just about any other likely prospects you can think of in the future as you continue to explore .....

"Based on what I heard at the most recent DecFest, this will be the end of my audio journey ..... and I want to offer in advance my heartfelt gratitude to Steve Deckert and Bob (Zygi) for their help and inspiration in making these wonderful speakers available to the readers of this forum .....  "

Now, see ..... this P155E5 me right off! You can't just leave! You're making it sound like this is "iADIOS, AMIGOS!", but it can't be. This place can't be without it's demi/semi/hemi/god any more than I could go all week without ..... Randy, I just spotted this ship ..... I can't quite catch up, yet and I've even had trouble keeping it above the horizon line at times, but we ..... I ..... I still need your inspired and well traveled guidance along with your understanding humor, and uplifting and witty distractions at times to offset the natural course of entropy that all my endeavors seem to push my mind towards, lately .....

"Additional photos and comments to follow, as available .....

Randy"


Say you're not going away, Randy! I would like to see the "Randy's Imperials" thread become one of those that never quite dies .....

:) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Doorman on 02/08/06 at 22:05:49

I'm looking, but I can't seem to find the "green with envy" smilie :(. Alas, the most important ingredient, ie: the room is missing in my set-up. We'll be anxiously awaiting pics etc, Randy!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/08/06 at 22:16:16

This arrangement is going to look magnificent.  But two imperials in a room that size is kind of like killing mice with dynamite.  

One imperial will be plenty loud enough to disintigrate your plaster, especially with correct room placement, which may not be where you think, especially considering the small size of the room.  Without any room treatments the response is likely to be wildly erratic throughout the room.

Adding an additional imperial will likely not help and may very well hurt performance.  At best it will be a bit louder which you will find you really don't need, at worst quite a bit quieter with even worse frequency response.  Of course, all considerations could equal each other out and be perfect, but I doubt it.

The dawg is right, you would probably be further ahead with one imperial and three basstraps.  

Unless of course you positioned both mouths together, effectively doubling mouth area and potentially going much lower.

It took me 60 hours of listening to position my one imperial to my satisfaction, it makes a lot more difference than you might think.

Don't get me wrong, even if things go very wrong it's still going to be pretty great.


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/08/06 at 22:21:51


DirtDawg wrote on 02/08/06 at 21:40:51:

"A couple of nights ago, we hauled the 10 sheets of good quality 3/4" oak plywood that will be needed for the project into his woodshop."

Here I'm worried that you should have gotten 2 extras ..... just in case your buddy gets a little off on a cut or you can think of any way to improve the rigidity of ..... if you think you need 10, you should get 11 or 12 to be sure ..... worst case is you build a super solid base for them ..... or a better bass trap to address some of the ..... uhmm ..... anyway .....

"The Imperials should fit very nicely in my listening room, exactly filling up the spaces between the edges of the center curtain and the side walls."

For some reason I thought you were going to lay them down ..... as instructed ..... the same way Steve had his in the pix ..... I guess I'm just not considering all the options available when you have all the bass you could ever ..... the mouths go down right? ..... so you will be able to make some nice bass traps for the ceiling junctions ..... but, wait .....  you're out of plywood .....





"Of course, I will have to do away with my chic $12.00 designer floor lamps .....  "

Negative! Bad idea! The only problem with the lighting scheme is that the poles are too long ..... you just need to have the center five feet of extension removed by the same, really handy, buddy from work. The lamps will create interesting, romantic shadows and intense, illustrative highlights that spill out mysteriously across your new ..... just don't throw them out, yet!

"I expect that the Imperials will work extremely well with the Parker Audio Behemoths or The Horns (as in the photo)."

..... or just about any other likely prospects you can think of in the future as you continue to explore .....

"Based on what I heard at the most recent DecFest, this will be the end of my audio journey ..... and I want to offer in advance my heartfelt gratitude to Steve Deckert and Bob (Zygi) for their help and inspiration in making these wonderful speakers available to the readers of this forum .....  "

Now, see ..... this P155E5 me right off! You can't just leave! You're making it sound like this is "iADIOS, AMIGOS!", but it can't be. This place can't be without it's demi/semi/hemi/god any more than I could go all week without ..... Randy, I just spotted this ship ..... I can't quite catch up, yet and I've even had trouble keeping it above the horizon line at times, but we ..... I ..... I still need your inspired and well traveled guidance along with your understanding humor, and uplifting and witty distractions at times to offset the natural course of entropy that all my endeavors seem to push my mind towards, lately .....

"Additional photos and comments to follow, as available .....

Randy"


Say you're not going away, Randy! I would like to see the "Randy's Imperials" thread become one of those that never quite dies .....

:) :) :) :) :)



Howdy DD,

As to the number of sheets of plywood, you are probably right ..... if my buddy Mike slips with the saw, we're probably in trouble.  Fortunately, he's not a big drinker, so I'm hoping for a "steady hand" with the saw ..... ::)

Concerning my chic pole lamps ..... I was actually thinking of removing the poles and hanging the remainder from the ceiling.  Your thoughts about the "interesting, romantic shadows and intense, illustrative highlights that spill out mysteriously" are pretty much on the mark as to the effect I am currently getting ..... although since 99% of my listening is done "solo", the romantic part is pretty much wasted ..... ???

"You can't just leave! You're making it sound like this is "ADIOS, AMIGOS!""

Very interesting ..... my buddy Mike said the same thing when he read my post ..... but, I can assure you that the readers of this forum will not be getting rid of me quite that easily .....

The comment about my "audio journey" is simply referring to my quest for new equipment.  Truthfully, I haven't made any serious changes to my system in a long time and I am deliriously happy with the sound I am getting at present.  However, the SO Imperials are really something special and I sincerely believe that they will be the icing on the cake.  The fortunate few who heard the Imperial / Crusader combo at the 2005 DecFest know what I'm talking about ..... and after my "Imperial Experience", there is no turning back .....

I'm afraid the forum readers will be stuck with me for a while longer .....

Best wishes,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/08/06 at 22:29:53


bassboy wrote on 02/08/06 at 22:16:16:
This arrangement is going to look magnificent.  But two imperials in a room that size is kind of like killing mice with dynamite.  

One imperial will be plenty loud enough to disintigrate your plaster, especially with correct room placement, which may not be where you think, especially considering the small size of the room.  Without any room treatments the response is likely to be wildly erratic throughout the room.

Adding an additional imperial will likely not help and may very well hurt performance.  At best it will be a bit louder which you will find you really don't need, at worst quite a bit quieter with even worse frequency response.  Of course, all considerations could equal each other out and be perfect, but I doubt it.

The dawg is right, you would probably be further ahead with one imperial and three basstraps.  

Unless of course you positioned both mouths together, effectively doubling mouth area and potentially going much lower.

It took me 60 hours of listening to position my one imperial to my satisfaction, it makes a lot more difference than you might think.

Don't get me wrong, even if things go very wrong it's still going to be pretty great.



Howdy bassboy,

The room is 16' x 26'.  The plan is to run the Imperials in parallel with the main speakers from a single Decware Select amplifier ..... as I heard at the DecFest.

You might very well be right about the overkill issue ..... but I will have the option of experimenting with placement and number of Imperial cabinets.  I am one of those "symetrically balanced" kind of people who like things in matched pairs ..... so I really like the idea of two cabinets.  If you are correct, I might end up with only one of them connected to the amp ..... ???

Since you have been living with the Imperial, your input is valued and very much appreciated ..... :)

Regards,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/08/06 at 22:44:05

If you are open to experimenting with speaker placement AND listening position placement, and you sit down to listen to music you will find a spot that will amaze you.

But I would start listening with only one, then add the other later.

I was dead serious about the plaster though.  If you do have plaster you might as well start ripping it out now and put in drywall with extra screws, as it is very annoying hearing it vibrating on the wall frame boards.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by boydon_lepasci on 02/09/06 at 01:27:36

Some of what bassboy says will apply to subs in general, but is he actually referring to a Sub Only Imperial with this amp?

SE84CS - Zen Triode amp - Select Version. 2 watts x 2 SET

Flexing your plaster with that would be impressive.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/09/06 at 02:09:47

Howdy boydon_lepasci,

At the 2005 DecFest, we had a pair of 95 db efficient 2 ohm Parker Audio Crusaders wired to a single Zen Select in parallel with the SO Imperials in Steve's garage / listening room.  I'm not sure what the actual dimensions of the room were, but the musical presentation was absolutely mindboggling.  It wasn't because of the SPLs (which were more than adequate) ..... but more the size of the soundstage and the feeling of the "recorded space" that was evident in a way I have NEVER before experienced.  The front wall, side walls and ceiling of the room were simply removed from the equation.

I don't know any other way to explain it ..... but the whole room felt like it was "breathing" ..... 8)

The bass instruments weren't trouser flapping and tooth rattling like you experience with a cheap subwoofer or cheesy home theater system ..... they were just present and realistic and effortless.  

Steve made the observation that the Imperials give the music "a place to go" ..... ???

I don't pretend to know exactly what is taking place, but I can understand what all the fuss is about among the fans of large horn loaded speakers ..... there is nothing quite like it.

Since I'm not much into head banger music, my reason for wanting the Imperials is to impart a sense of realism to acoustic blues and small ensemble jazz ..... and I have a feeling that I will get exactly what I'm looking for ..... and then some ..... :)

Of course, it's also possible that I might discover just how good a few other musical genres can sound once these beauties are part of the system .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 02/09/06 at 04:49:01

thanks Randy. I do have that page printed out but found a couple dimension unclear.
But since they are so close to Steves Imperial I used those. but If they are exact or not I have no idea.
I usually draft up scaled plans for any hopeful project but I would have to fold the heavy paper more than once to store those puppies.

I have made a version of one awhile back that seemed to work out but since I am always experimenting it underwent changes and I wish now I never did.

If I build a full size wood one I am kinda worried that I will have the problems that Dank has had. So I am holding out for exact science.

Thanks Randy,
I look forward to your report on what a couple watts can do with a great design.

Gex

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by teepeeworks on 02/09/06 at 04:54:23


Caintuck Randy wrote on 02/09/06 at 02:09:47:
Steve made the observation that the Imperials give the music "a place to go" ..... ???



Randy



I have thought about this for awhile now. Perhaps the massive wavefronts are basically "exciting" the air molecules and allowing them to conduct the mids/highs better. That or they allow the first passing of the signal, but impede a reflection, much like a diffusor but the bass air "absorbs" the reflection because it is moving as well. Wonder what hooking the sub 180 deg. out of phase would do to the soundstage when you observed this "widening" effect?  

Take care,

Corey

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 02/09/06 at 05:00:17

Corey whenever I see a post like yours that Zen word pops into my head and these lttle zen lights are going on one by one.
damn!
You guys might make an audiophile of me yet.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by J_Rock on 02/09/06 at 06:03:34

EXCELLENT THREAD!


bassboy wrote on 02/08/06 at 22:16:16:
This arrangement is going to look magnificent.  But two imperials in a room that size is kind of like killing mice with dynamite.  



Have you actually tried killing mice with Dynamite?  Cause if you haven't I suggest you do at least once!

:D

But in all seriousness, I am going to have to demand this thread be kept alive forever.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by 60ndown on 02/09/06 at 15:15:17

i would wait till steve releases the ACTUAL plans for the so imp. it would be a p.i.t.a. to cut a sexy enclosure to pieces because of a small overlooked placement of ply? anyone who is anyone knows the importance of patience?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 02/09/06 at 16:55:25

Have to agree with 60.

thats also an awful large amount of wood and time to end up it not working the way it should.
why risk it?

Thats the major reason I would build a std Imperial sub right now without the exact Imp SO plans

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/09/06 at 17:09:17

Boydon - my comments are based on my own experience with my imperial, which is similar but still quite different than the SO.  In case you didn't see my post in dank's thread here is a brief description.

Mine was originally built from 1956 plans but modified to make construction much easier, built mainly of SOLID 2" doors with no bracing anywhere, although even with the huge panels it might still help.  All internal dimensions are kept exactly to original specs.  

Not happy with frequency response, I did a lot of research and decided, as Steve did, to change the design to front loaded.  All I did to change it was move the driver panel back to close the internal compression chamber and cover the front.

2 10's use the 8 or 9 foot chamber in an infinite baffle situation, as they call for a sealed box of only 1.3 cubes each.  This REDUCES the sensitivity of the drivers from a rated 94 by probably 3 db less.  It does, however, promote low frequency extension and response is still pretty even.

I do not utilize any type of slot in the front, making my design very similar to most commercial units.  

The amp I use is solid state garbage, 200 watts total peak.  I have never used more than 100 watts peak, and at this volume it is very unpleasant as the room vibrations cause more noise than the bass.  You can actually feel the concrete floor vibrating.

It has been my experience that speaker placement in the room is more important than driver selection, compression chamber size, materials used to make the box, etc.  Especially in an untreated room.  In my opinion, the only thing as important is keeping the horn flare as close as possible to a proven design.

All those factors are certainly important but...

I have tried both a front and a back loaded imperial with different combinations of 2x10", 2x8", 4x8".  The speakers had wildly different specs but the frequency response for each combo was ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME, all combos rolling off steeply below 40.  (I like 2x10" front loaded the best.)

Those are the results directly in front of the horn mouth.  Coupling to the room provides dramatically different results in which moving the speaker just a few inches completely changes the frequency response in different parts of the room.  The best spot to date for even frequency response and low frequency extension has been with the mouth very close to the corner walls.

All that is a long way of saying no, it is not exactly an imperial SO, no, I am not using a 4 watt amp.  But in my untreated room, with the mouth so close to the wall 4 watts is about the max before the room starts shaking and reducing sound quality.  

A 20hz note at 10 watts total peak does not sound loud at all but rattles the room and especially the wall it fires into like you would not believe.  Not enough to shake the drywall free of the screws but definitely enough to crumble old dry plaster.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/09/06 at 17:29:20


60ndown wrote on 02/09/06 at 15:15:17:
i would wait till steve releases the ACTUAL plans for the so imp. it would be a p.i.t.a. to cut a sexy enclosure to pieces because of a small overlooked placement of ply? anyone who is anyone knows the importance of patience?


Howdy 60,

I talked to Steve and he said that the plan as it sits will work just fine.  I also have some photos that Zygi took as he was building Tim's (change_out's) pair of SO Imperials and according to Zygi and Tim they work VERY well ..... :)

My builder has gone over the plans and photos with a fine tooth comb and is making ACAD drawings for the build.  He works in ACAD all day long and says that the plans and photos make perfect sense to him ..... but he will probably be calling Steve or Zygi to clarify a minor detail or two, as Zygi made a couple of small changes to the original when he built Tim's.

No worries ..... but I appreciate your concerns .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by change_out on 02/09/06 at 20:04:01

Howdy,

Mine work very well indeed. With 1.6 watts / channel you will move "big air". With a 500 watt Bryston I have seen the Parkers deflect ( rock from side to side ) by as much as 1/16-1/8 inch. I did not keep the spl at that pressure long! No dry wall dammage was incured.

If one has not heard the Imperial as it was at the fest, I don't consider myself articulate enough to describe it. I am sure the speaker can output pressure capable of damage to the structure in which they are housed, as much so to the listeners ears.

What ever the risk of damage may be -- it IS managable and should not present an issue with the prudent audiophile. All that said I would not trade the Imperials.Period. This is a great thread!

Tim



   

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 02/09/06 at 20:20:01

As soon as I can verify the numbers it goes to draft mode and full scale drawings.

Change_out and Randy your my heros

1.6 watts for nice bass fill, looks like Steve is right on the money...again....

Are you using the Daytons or another driver? the dayton 295-130  ST385-8 15" series II woofer was mentioned
Fs 19
Qts .34
Is that what you went with?

Gex

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/09/06 at 20:32:39

Howdy Gex,

We are both using the Dayton drivers ..... ;D

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by boydon_lepasci on 02/10/06 at 01:45:22

Randy, bassboy and everybody else,

I'm with you all the way on horn designs. I think they're the only way to go if you can get your hands on quality low-power amps. I'm an efficiency freak so I like horns even with the SS amps in my budget. I even run to the "if more is better then too much is just right" side of things when it comes to SPL or HP. Not at the expense of SQ though.

bassboy, I caught your background in the other post after my question on this one. Have you read the Harman paper on sub placement? I think they only tried monopole subs for the entire test and your results seem to indicate a lack of corellation(sp?) for horns. Anybody up for another thread?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/10/06 at 04:06:44

Boydon - I have not seen any info on sub placement and any info you have would be a great topic for a new thread.  

Tim, please tell me what kind of frequency response you are getting, in particular, where low frequency starts to roll off.  I have guessed 40 is as low as it is likely to go with -3db at about 35.  I would love to be proven wrong, I would definitely buy new, lower fs subs.  As far as I know you may have the only pro-built SO's so I'm sure everyone would like to know.

I'll also be waiting for Randy's answer to the same question.  How long is that going to take, anyway?  Anyone else measured imperial output?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/10/06 at 14:10:35


bassboy wrote on 02/10/06 at 04:06:44:
I'll also be waiting for Randy's answer to the same question.  How long is that going to take, anyway?  Anyone else measured imperial output?


As I mentioned to Tim in another thread, the friend who is building my Imperials is a "weekend warrior" when it comes to his woodworking ..... because he has a real job and a family to consider.  But, I have seen his work and he has a really nice wood shop.  He is also a detail freak and a perfectionist.

He's finishing up another project that should be done soon and estimates that the Imperials will be ready in four to five weeks ... I probably should have named this thread "The anticipation is killing me" ..... ???

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/10/06 at 15:53:23


J_Rock wrote on 02/09/06 at 06:03:34:
EXCELLENT THREAD!



Have you actually tried killing mice with Dynamite?  Cause if you haven't I suggest you do at least once!

:D

But in all seriousness, I am going to have to demand this thread be kept alive forever.



That just reminded me of one of my first imperial experiences.  I had a pair in a single car garage (door open) with a large crack in the concrete floor (can't remember how that happened) and after doing some high SPL tests of low frequencies, Paul and I got to watch a mouse crawl up out of the crack - stagger around and die only a few inches from where he appeared.  We knew exactly what killed him.


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/10/06 at 16:02:53


bassboy wrote on 02/10/06 at 04:06:44:
Boydon - I have not seen any info on sub placement and any info you have would be a great topic for a new thread.  

Tim, please tell me what kind of frequency response you are getting, in particular, where low frequency starts to roll off.  I have guessed 40 is as low as it is likely to go with -3db at about 35.  I would love to be proven wrong, I would definitely buy new, lower fs subs.  As far as I know you may have the only pro-built SO's so I'm sure everyone would like to know.

I'll also be waiting for Randy's answer to the same question.  How long is that going to take, anyway?  Anyone else measured imperial output?



At the fest, I did a sine wave sweep on the Imperial SO's so that those who attended could hear a true 20 cycle note.  There was no attenuation as the frequency dropped from 100 to 20Hz.

Also, a note about the plans linked to earlier in this thread.  The color picture posted is low res to prevent people from accurately building a pair.  I have a very high resolution grey scale image of the same thing that I have been e-mailing to those persons wanting to build a pair.  I remember sending one to Randy, but that doesn't mean he got it.  Make sure Randy that you have the right plans.



Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/10/06 at 16:20:01

That's the word from the man himself, I obviously need new, lower fs subs.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/10/06 at 16:28:06

Recalling the incident with the mouse I started remembering all kinds of fun things that happened during my first couple years with Imperials out in that garage.  Paul and I tried every 15 inch driver we could get our hands on for about a year.  Then the crazy stuff began.  At one point we had two 15 inch drivers compounded and horizontally loaded inside the imperial by using the dead air space in the original 1956 design as a sealed box.  Then we reinstalled a 3rd 15 inch driver in the front.  This was the tightest bass we ever got out of them, I remember it was like being hit by a 2x4.  The best combination I ever came up with was taking a 1 cubic foot sealed cube, placing a 12 inch woofer in it.  Measured response in cube was -3dB at 120Hz.  It had no bass.  Then I screwed a 24 x 24 inch board to the back of the cube and installed the cube face first into the 15 inch opening of the Imperial.  The 24x24 inch board held the cube in place and sealed the opening where the 15 inch driver typically goes.  This turned it into the worlds biggest bandpass box and with the SPL meter set at 100dB at 100Hz it hit 124dB at 28.5Hz.  That btw, is one fricking serious bass note that you bones remember for a long time until the inflamation goes down.  Poor mouse...

One of my favorite things to do was stand out there in that garage and do the low frequency sweep - real slow.  I could make it sound and feel like a helicopter was landing on the roof.  Dave, who lived one block away (353 yards by straight line distance) has a beer stein collection that I could make rattle by doing these sweeps.  I figured out a radius from his house to the garage and estimate this effected about 20 houses nearby.

I liked and still do for some reason to call it "wazoo"ing the imperials.  I'm certain this addiction was irritating to people because once around 2:30 P.M.  I saw a guy running across the road about 2 houses down in his P.J.'s trying to find the little bastard who was making all this noise every day.  I guess he worked 3rd shift.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/10/06 at 16:43:41

And of course thinking about the 12 inch cube trick, we had a local night club call us (we did pro sound at the time) because word got out about the imperials as I started installing them around town.  They had 4 18" subs with 1600 watts driving them and basically had no bass.  The company that designed and installed them blamed it on standing waves and claimed no more bass was possible in the club.  I didn't really like this particular club owner too much so when he called I told him yea, I can make bass in your club hit so low that things could become damaged.  He didn't believe me, so Paul and I heaved the imperial in the truck and drove down there with it.  It still had the 12 inch cube inside.  To power it I took my frequency generator and a harmon kardon 80 watt receiver with one blown channel.  We trucked the cabinet into the club and I did a super slow motion wazoo starting at 150Hz.  When I hit 50 Hz the bass was about the same as what he had before with the 18's.  I paused there and said, well - what do you think of that?  I just had to mess with him.  The wazoo slowly continued down and as predicted, at 28.5Hz I had stopped an entire night club, some 100 people from talking, and most had gotten up from their tables to stand at attention.  Everyone became very uneasy because they had no idea what we were doing, or that we were even there.  The ash trays on some of the tables - no really it was all of the tables - started moving around on the table tops.  I asked the guy if he would agree that this is bass - he did.  Then we turned it off and trucked it right back out the door and left.  A month later we had a contract to design and replace the entire system.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by J_Rock on 02/10/06 at 16:51:59

Awesome stories!

These are with the original, well your original imperial design?

I may have to build one for absolutely no reason now, I have no room for it, and no cash to pay for it, but I need it.

But honestly, for bass only, SO or normal Imperial?  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/10/06 at 17:35:56

J, as far as I know there are three generally accepted ways to load a horn.  Back loaded - (think original imperial), front loaded with no front cavity - (think imperial SO or wo32), and front loaded with a cavity in front - (like Steve's bandpass imperial or the wicked one).  Basically these are ported, sealed and bandpass respectively, and each design should present these characteristics to the throat which will be amplified at the mouth.

So in very general terms you could pick your favorite box design and stick a horn on it.  What you put into a well designed horn should come out very similar on the other end but a lot louder.  Obviously there are other considerations, this is a very general statement.

The SO, because of it's sealed box characteristics is probably the quietest (although not necessarily) but also should possess the highest sound quality.  Even if it does happen to be 2 or 3db quieter than the other designs it is not likely going to matter as listening levels in a room will not likely require more than 5 watts.

By the way, back loaded designs require a lower q driver as they do not have a sealed box to help stability below fs.

You will not likely be disappointed by any design you try, as this is a sub that is hard not to be passionate about in any form.

As I appear to have been very wrong about driver selection, I may be wrong about these statements as well, so if anyone knows better, please correct me.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 02/10/06 at 17:52:46

As I will be taking the box apart again to add weight to the speaker cones or completely replacing the subs I now have a question about sand filling the dead spaces in the box.  I have read reports that sitting a sub in a sandbox (not likely for most people) and putting a 100 lb bag of sand on the top can improve response by up to 3 db.  The Dinsdale articles describe a method of using sand filled panels to actually make the box.  And sand filling dead cavities is generally accepted as good practice as long as you can deal with the extra weight.

I want to know if anyone has tried any of these options in an imperial and if it is worth it, as it would certainly be a lot of weight and my box is already well over 300 lb.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 02/10/06 at 17:59:08


Steve Deckert wrote on 02/10/06 at 16:02:53:
Also, a note about the plans linked to earlier in this thread.  The color picture posted is low res to prevent people from accurately building a pair.  I have a very high resolution grey scale image of the same thing that I have been e-mailing to those persons wanting to build a pair.  I remember sending one to Randy, but that doesn't mean he got it.  Make sure Randy that you have the right plans.


Howdy Steve,

Yep ..... I have the plans you sent me.  I was presuming that the low res plans that you posted were identical and didn't really look at them very closely.  My builder will be using the grey scale image for the build ..... ;D

Thanks for the clarification ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by goldenk10 on 02/23/06 at 08:57:27

I have now read this thread at least three times and have to chime in. My acoustics instructor has all kinds of custom, very fancy folded horns with Lowther DX3's (pictured below). However, he has two Jensen Imperials in his "home office". I have heard his full 5.1 system with the lowthers and a klipsch folded horn corner subwoofer. He says his two imperials blow his horn-loaded 5.1 system out of the water. In his words "Nothing can compare to the Imperials."



I know putting these horns in an imperial thread is tantamount to blasphemy, but I decided to anyway. ;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by selmerdave on 02/23/06 at 13:03:42

goldenk, out of curiosity which Imperials does he have?  Is it this one (the basis of the Decware design)?

http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Jensen/bulletin1-1.jpg

Or this one (outside of Decware the more popular of the two)?

http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Jensen/cabinart-1.jpg


Just curious, thanks.

Dave

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by goldenk10 on 02/23/06 at 20:04:07

It is my understanding he has the first of the two, with the rectangular footprint. He also gave the class copies of an original Jensen Speaker building manual (circa 1956) which has both designs detailed in it. So, I have plans for the original imperials (rectangular and corner design), but not Steve's new and improved design.

BTW, the illustrations in the manual are hilarious, very 50's!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 02/23/06 at 21:09:53

The much smaller size makes that corner Imperial  interesting.  I would like to hear from someone who has used one of those.

Edit:
I found this in the classic Imperial thread:
"This is the "cut-corner" home version of the Imperial. Paul and I have built a pair of these also, still have them.  They do not compare to the full size imperial with one 15.  They really do not compare to the new models.  They do not go much lower than 37 Hz, and they sound sloppy compared to these new ones." - Steve D.

So I guess that answers that.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 02/23/06 at 21:18:08


J_Rock wrote on 02/10/06 at 16:51:59:
These are with the original, well your original imperial design?

Hi J Rock, as I understand it these stories from Steve were with Jensen's design!  Steve did not come out with his improved Imperial until Christmas 2002 when he debuted it here in these forums in the "Hell Those Aren't Big" thread.  
He should be able to kill even more mice now.  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/07/06 at 17:50:08

Happy day ..... :)

This Saturday (March 11th) is the day that construction starts on the SO Imperials.  I will be going to the home of the friend who is doing the building to "supervise" ..... ::)

I'm not sure how long the whole deal will take, since he can only work on them on weekends, but I will keep everyone posted with details and photos ..... :D

Randy


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 03/07/06 at 22:29:47

Great news!  I 'm happy for you Randy. :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 03/07/06 at 23:46:14

photos? ..... YES!  :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/13/06 at 20:49:03

Well ..... Saturday went well.  We worked for about 5 hours and got most of the big pieces cut and trimmed to exact specs.  Mike worked a few more hours on Sunday and got a good number of the smaller pieces cut ..... :)

We dry clamped the outer pieces of the big box together so that I could do a little drooling ..... I created a lovely puddle ..... ::)

Mike promises to take photos at each stage of construction when he starts putting them together.

This might be the longest month of my life ..... ???

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/14/06 at 07:55:04

S.O. are these that good? Seems like a lot of work, but if they are good it always worth it.

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/14/06 at 13:03:33


Brian wrote on 02/23/06 at 21:09:53:
The much smaller size makes that corner Imperial  interesting.  I would like to hear from someone who has used one of those.

Edit:
I found this in the classic Imperial thread:
"This is the "cut-corner" home version of the Imperial. Paul and I have built a pair of these also, still have them.  They do not compare to the full size imperial with one 15.  They really do not compare to the new models.  They do not go much lower than 37 Hz, and they sound sloppy compared to these new ones." - Steve D.

So I guess that answers that.



I missed this entry..
I built a single of the corner Imperial in a SO configuration out of cardboard Some of it was wood and it was heavily reinforced.
they had to be in a corner and and worked well and now is a Imperial without the SO mod and seems louder but not as low but I never did any real testing.
I can't speak for the full range but my first rendition of this design was nice in the right location.
the horn mouth is much smaller and thats where the wall comes in..
I have them laying in the garage under my workbench with the top off and the horn extended by my workbench they sound great and low.

I would build the imperial over most designs in a sub and likely a full range if I had the room.
I have yet to build a full range Imperial design..

the Transflex design is in a attempted redesign at the moment and I am trying to convert it into a corner design about 8 feet tall. It was Johns idea to try it but I have not been happy with what I have come up with yet. I don't want to use all that wood on a bad design.

It ain't no horn but its a Jensen design to pick up where the Imp drops off.. I think its excessive low, but looks like fun..
So far its not looking good enough to follow through with.


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/14/06 at 13:04:51


Mr Content wrote on 03/14/06 at 07:55:04:
S.O. are these that good? Seems like a lot of work, but if they are good it always worth it.

Mr C


Howdy Mr C,

Nice play on words ..... :)

And ..... yes, they really are that good.  I have enjoyed the audio hobby for a good number of years, and I can say without hesitation that the SO Imperials add a dimension to the sound that exceeds anything I have ever heard ..... and by a large margin ..... ???

We occasionally hear about a sound system that causes the listening room to "disappear" or that transports us to the recording space.  The combination of the SO Imperials and Parker Audio Crusaders at the last DecFest accomplished both of those things.

Well worth the effort and the wait .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/14/06 at 13:50:25

How do you plan to drive the S.O´s Randy?

>>mod oop´s reread the thread and found you´re answere :)<<

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/14/06 at 14:57:59


Rap wrote on 03/14/06 at 13:50:25:
How do you plan to drive the S.O´s Randy?

>>mod oop´s reread the thread and found you´re answere :)<<


Howdy Rap,

As you figured out, I plan to drive the Imperials with the Zen Select, in parallel with my 4 ohm 96 db efficient Parker Audio Behemoths.  I also own a pair of The Horns with the new Fostex 126 drivers.  I'm thinking that either speaker will sound great (but quite different) with the Imperials ..... :)

The other option would be to power the Imperials with the 100W plate amp that I currently use to power the Parker Audio Trogs or the HornLine.

I guess an argument could be made for either setup.  Running the Imperials directly from the speaker taps of the Select should preserve any and all low level spatial information in a true stereo configuration.  Of course, the received wisdom indicates that this is not an issue with low frequencies ..... but, I'm not totally convinced of that ..... ???

Using the plate amp to power the Imperials will obviously provide more power and the ability to tailor the volume and crossover frequency, but I'm not really trying to kill any mice ..... so power shouldn't be an issue.  It would be a stereo signal into the plate amp and a summed signal to the Imperials.

It will be easy enough to try both ways, but I would be curious about the thoughts of the forum readers on this topic .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/14/06 at 15:18:58

Thank´s Randy :)

It will look ´funny to see the tiny zen driving those monsters  :) Very impressive  ;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/15/06 at 01:44:29

I think that the way you plan on running it off the Zen would be great. providing you have the Imps in the right location..
Your room no doubt is already taken care of.

thats not much but its all I got and no doubt already taken care of.
I wish I was you!  :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/15/06 at 02:21:26


gexter wrote on 03/15/06 at 01:44:29:
I think that the way you plan on running it off the Zen would be great. providing you have the Imps in the right location..
Your room no doubt is already taken care of.

thats not much but its all I got and no doubt already taken care of.
I wish I was you!  :)


Howdy Gex,

I'm thinking the same ..... the parallel setup directly from the Zen Select produced top shelf sound in Peoria.  If I get anywhere near the same effect in my room, I will be a happy camper ..... :)

My room is 26' x 16' ..... which is one of the many "magic formulas" for room dimensions.  It would be even better if I had 10' ceilings, but the sound is already very good with the 8' height.  I have some room treatment in place and will be experimenting with more when the Imperials arrive.

As far as wishing you were me ..... be careful what you wish for.  It might be safer to just wish you would own a pair of SO Imperials in the near future ..... ???

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 03/15/06 at 03:38:06


Caintuck Randy wrote on 03/14/06 at 14:57:59:
Running the Imperials directly from the speaker taps of the Select should preserve any and all low level spatial information in a true stereo configuration.  Of course, the received wisdom indicates that this is not an issue with low frequencies ..... but, I'm not totally convinced of that ..... ???

It will be easy enough to try both ways, but I would be curious about the thoughts of the forum readers on this topic

Hi Randy,
I would like to read your results if you try this both ways.  I have often been curious about that question of the importance of stereo bass.  Also the difference in sonic quality between solid state and tubes down in the lowest registers.  
Great experiment.  I wish you well.
Brian

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/15/06 at 04:25:01

Thanks for the info Randy. Sounds interesting. I have 2WO32's, but I am not completly happy with them. I have heard a lot of subs go lower, athought they are fast. I dont know if I will go with IB bass, or try something like the SO.

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 03/20/06 at 11:01:19

I've been waiting for this day.  Our friend Randy should be updating this thread.  If we are lucky he might even post some pictures of his project.

Randy is my hero on this forum!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/20/06 at 11:12:36


paulc wrote on 03/20/06 at 11:01:19:
Randy is my hero on this forum!


Randy, we know thats you under a different name ::)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 03/20/06 at 13:57:43

Hey Rap,

You are correct about me being someone with a different name but I'm not Randy.  I do feel that your comment would be a compliment to me.

Having read nearly every post Randy has made on this forum and met him twice at Steve's, I have the utmost respect for him and his outlook on life and this hobby.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/20/06 at 14:54:00


paulc wrote on 03/20/06 at 13:57:43:
I have the utmost respect for him and his outlook on life and this hobby.

Me to ;D
If you have read all of Randys post then you know I like to tease him every now and then :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/20/06 at 17:55:32

Speaking of teasing ..... ???

My buddy Mike provided a few photos of the work in progress ..... I'm not sure how quickly they will load on everyone's internet connection, so I will split them up.



One down ..... three to go ..... :)


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/20/06 at 18:00:01

A nice coffin ;D Did youre friend get ahead of the plans and put batons in the top and bottom first? seem to be some filled in screw holes ???

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/20/06 at 18:08:32


Rap wrote on 03/20/06 at 18:00:01:
A nice coffin ;D Did youre friend get ahead of the plans and put batons in the top and bottom first? seem to be some filled in screw holes ???


Howdy Rap,

Those holes are for a special type of fastener that he is using ..... strong beyond belief ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/20/06 at 18:15:35

Two of four .....



Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/20/06 at 18:29:03

Three of four .....



Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/20/06 at 18:47:27

Four of four .....





More to come as I get them.

The waiting is torture ..... :-/

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/20/06 at 18:54:15

paulc - some of us get stuck between the teeth in times if you don't know its all in fun.
Rap is out of the bunch that make me laugh, now that Match had taken a holiday he has to work twice as hard :)

Randy- very nice.. the wood shop!!
The Imps are no slouch either.

thanks for the pics. it reminds me how much work and how massive they are..

still nice no matter how you look at it..


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 03/20/06 at 19:14:15

Hell, those aren't big!

Where's the "DROOL" smiley?

Randy,

Please, don't paint that beautiful woodwork. You're going to have to give us a crash course in what your buddy, Mike, did with the corners. The shop looks great, but I notice the broom and vac are both passed out on the floor. :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/20/06 at 19:21:01


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/20/06 at 19:36:05


DirtDawg wrote on 03/20/06 at 19:14:15:
Hell, those aren't big!

Where's the "DROOL" smiley?



Hell, those ARE big!!!

But so beautiful  :)  Don't make me look for a drool smilely.. LOL..

Hey Corey!! - You following this thread? Did you ever build some to  help those HDT's   ;D

Dank- did you ever get things worked out?

I am in the process of reworking my tiny workshop so I can build a new kitchen piece by little piece.
Never know what else may end up being assembled with the "ahem"  (extra birch ply). However it will not be a Imp just yet.
I put some major power into my Cardboard Imp and some of the glued seams cracked. It does not sound good run ragged with techno. sound great with stuff like bluegrass and the likes of Buddy Green. He likes to add a little bass to his gospel :D..

Still love the IMP, even a hack!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by dank on 03/20/06 at 20:57:50

Gexter and all

My Imp SO is still pretty sick.  I've been sidetracked on a new speaker project for the past 6 months or so, and it led into a second new speaker project, so I've been just waiting and watching.  I've gone over everything I can think of and I'm pretty sure everything is at least close - which means it should be working good, but its not.  Steve's comment about how his SO's performance gets worse when the front k-slot is boarded up while mine gets MUCH better is a BIG clue, but I haven't been able to figure out just what it means - yet.  I'm sure interested to see how Randy's SO's will perform...and every picture posted will help as I might see something that I did differently/wrong.

DanK

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 03/20/06 at 23:25:02

Hey Gex,

I sure do not have any problem with anything Rap has ever said.  You and Rap are two of my favorite posters on this forum.

I was only trying to get Randy to give us a update on his project.  He sure came through didn't he?

It has been said that "envy is an ugly thing" but I sure  have the wants for a pair of SO's.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/20/06 at 23:32:20


Caintuck Randy wrote on 03/20/06 at 18:08:32:
strong beyond belief ..... :)

Randy


Oh you mean nails..or is that a dad reference :) ;) nice going and thanks for the blow by blow pictures


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 03/20/06 at 23:37:26

Heck, I would give a small appendage for just one SO.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by BIG_GEOFF on 03/21/06 at 01:31:45

Hey guys,  I'm not sure if i missed out on something here, if those are going to be regular imperials or SO's but shouldnt the top and the bottom both be two layers of wood  ???(or mdf if thats what your using) ?  it didnt seem like that from the photos. Maybe im just not seeing it all,  i should probably turn the volume down on my imperial some time, :'( i think it may be starting to cause some damage :-*.

    Oh, and with break in with imperials, is it alright to have them play at a reasonably loud volume all day (say about 6 or 7 horus while im at school) to give them a good break in?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 03/21/06 at 01:48:06

Maybe you should ask your neighbors. :D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by BIG_GEOFF on 03/21/06 at 02:10:18

ha.... >:(.  

haha, i love the support though, thankss

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/21/06 at 02:17:03


Rap wrote on 03/20/06 at 23:32:20:
Oh you mean nails..or is that a dad reference :) ;) nice going and thanks for the blow by blow pictures


Howdy Rap,

Actually, the reference was to a Kreg jig joint which might even be stronger than Dad ..... ???

Mike showed me how these things work when I was at his shop.  He took a couple of scraps of wood, drilled a couple of holes using this jig and shot a couple of the special screws into the wood that looked for all intents and purposes like a butt joint.  He then invited me to pull them apart.  Ten minutes later, after tugging and pulling and jumping up and down on the joint, I threw in the towel ..... :'(

Neat tool ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gnat leader on 03/21/06 at 02:30:17

I bought the Kregg jig a while back and really love it. Wish I had more time to fiddle with woodworking and speaker building.

-Brad-

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/21/06 at 02:39:30


BIG_GEOFF wrote on 03/21/06 at 01:31:45:
Hey guys,  I'm not sure if i missed out on something here, if those are going to be regular imperials or SO's but shouldnt the top and the bottom both be two layers of wood  ???(or mdf if thats what your using) ?  it didnt seem like that from the photos. Maybe im just not seeing it all .....


Hey BIG_GEOFF,

First ..... you have a great name ..... http://home.fuse.net/randyr/smiley_cool.gif" alt="" border="0" />
My son's name is Geoff, and he's pretty big as well ..... about 270 lb on a good day ..... :)

I looked at the photos of the SO Imperials that Zygi built for change_out ..... and the top and bottom seem to be a single 3/4" thickness, with some reinforcement around the edges ..... ???

Of course, with speakers of this sort, extra thickness probably doesn't hurt.

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by BIG_GEOFF on 03/21/06 at 02:55:27


Quote:
First ..... you have a great name .....  
My son's name is Geoff, and he's pretty big as well ..... about 270 lb on a good day .....  

Ha, well thanks Randy. Its funny you say that, most people hate the way my name is spelled.  I get a lot of Geee-offs alot.  But i cant say im 270, I wrestled 152 Lbs this season but im lookin to bulk up a bit (probably not to 270)


But back to speakers...  The back of my imperial tends to vibrate a lil much when there is stronger bass playing in a song.  I have the braces called for in the plans but it seems a little on the weak side.  Will extra bracing, perhaps on the back of it, not in the throat, possibly reduce these vibrations and maybe even improve some sound quality?

(heres the braces called for in the plans)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/21/06 at 03:02:11


DirtDawg wrote on 03/20/06 at 19:14:15:
Randy,

Please, don't paint that beautiful woodwork. You're going to have to give us a crash course in what your buddy, Mike, did with the corners. The shop looks great, but I notice the broom and vac are both passed out on the floor. :)


Howdy DD,

Not to worry ..... Mike will be putting a beautiful light stain and satin poly on them that will closely match the floor in my listening room ..... :)

You might have noticed on the last photo that he bonded pieces of solid oak to the side panels to allow a more finished look.  Mike has made some gorgeous furniture, which made the decision to have him build them pretty easy.  I am a total "wood butcher" ..... ::)

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/21/06 at 03:12:27


BIG_GEOFF wrote on 03/21/06 at 02:55:27:

Ha, well thanks Randy. Its funny you say that, most people hate the way my name is spelled.  I get a lot of Geee-offs .....


Well ..... some folks just have no class ..... :)

When I was 14 years old, I promised myself that if I ever had a son I would name him Geoffrey ..... he's 26 years old and we are great buds.  We watch sports together, drink Guinness together, play guitar together ..... and (best of all) he attends the DecFest with me every year ..... http://home.fuse.net/randyr/smiley_cool.gif" alt="" border="0" />

As you get older and the folks around you grow up mentally, you will appreciate your name more ..... ???

Best wishes,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/21/06 at 03:24:20


paulc wrote on 03/20/06 at 23:25:02:
Hey Gex,

I sure do not have any problem with anything Rap has ever said.  You and Rap are two of my favorite posters on this forum.

I was only trying to get Randy to give us a update on his project.  He sure came through didn't he?

It has been said that "envy is an ugly thing" but I sure  have the wants for a pair of SO's.


Jeez I must have my shorts on too tight lately..  
I think I need to do some chillin myself.   Have great day and thanks for compliment.

If I rate as high as Rap then I am in good company. I know its not my knowledge but my complete lack of humour that entertains and absorbs people like a bounty picker upper.
;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 03/22/06 at 14:44:28


BIG_GEOFF wrote on 03/21/06 at 02:55:27:

But back to speakers...  The back of my imperial tends to vibrate a lil much when there is stronger bass playing in a song.  I have the braces called for in the plans but it seems a little on the weak side.  Will extra bracing, perhaps on the back of it, not in the throat, possibly reduce these vibrations and maybe even improve some sound quality?

(heres the braces called for in the plans)



Two things:  

A) the braces you have on the back panel are 1.5" wide, and they should have been 2.25" wide (3 boards thick).

B) I forgot to put a VERY important brace on the plans.  The braces on the back panel should be locked into the speaker chamber with another brace(s) to prevent the back from moving in and out.

Also, your horn would work better if you added the 45 degree cleat at the bottom where the horn bends.  Make sure you have one in the front also.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by BIG_GEOFF on 03/23/06 at 01:19:20

Thanks for pointing the cleat missing to me Steve.  I can remember when i was building it i had forgot to put it in by the time i had it all assembled.  I might actually have that peice of mdf still cut in the scrap pile ???.  I do have the other cleat in the front of the horn.  I geuss ill pay a little more attention to small details in the plans next time :-/.  Also, should those braces that connect the rear chamber to the speaker chamber be 3 boards thick as well, placed over top the other braces?  And just to throw around, what about doubling up on the thickness of the rear panel with the braces still installed?

                       -Geoff

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/24/06 at 14:16:36

I will be visiting Mike tomorrow (Saturday) to do some more "supervising" on the Imperial project ..... ::)

The plan is to take a few more photos for show and tell ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 03/24/06 at 14:52:07

And I didn't even have to stir the pot this time.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/24/06 at 15:04:05



:)   :)   :)




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/24/06 at 15:21:00

Randy you´re still at work! No daydreaming about Imperials :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/24/06 at 19:36:57


Sorry ..... it's a sickness ..... but, a good one ..... :)


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/26/06 at 11:38:37

Any more Randy........... :)

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 03:36:37

Howdy Mr C,

Mike and I worked on the Imperials for about five hours on Saturday.  He is so meticulous about everything he does that the going is a bit slow for my tastes ..... I guess it's a good thing he is the "artiste" and I am just the customer ..... ???

He said he would be working on them some more on Sunday (today).  He is supposed to take a few more photos and bring them to work on Monday.  If that happens, I will be sure to post them ..... :)

I would have taken my digital camera, but it is pretty sorry compared to the one Mike owns ..... ::)

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/27/06 at 04:10:20

I bet you are like a little kid thats taking a car ride that seems to take forever.....

How many times have you said " are we there yet?" :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 04:24:29

Howdy Gex,

Quite a few times, I'm afraid ..... ::)

I will probably have to apply the cattle prod to Mikey a bit more vigorously, since he can only work on the weekends and a little during weekday evenings because of other responsibilities.  Unfortunately, he is seriously into camping ..... and the weather is warming up quickly in this part of the country.

If they aren't finished soon, I'm in a heap of trouble ..... ???

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/27/06 at 08:32:11

Heres what you do.
7:00am Start work on them
12:00am Lunch
4:00pm tea break
7:00pm Evening meal
9:00pm Stop work.

Job finished ;D  ;D  :D
Enjoy.

Need anymore help Randy.  :D  :D

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 14:36:23

Howdy Mr C,

I showed Mike your schedule and he reminded me that slavery has been abolished in this country .....

Oh well ..... here are a few more photos .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 14:37:29

Two of six .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 14:38:13

Three of six .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 14:38:51

Four of six .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 14:39:32

Five of six .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/27/06 at 14:40:31

Six of six .....



More as they become available ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by J_Rock on 03/27/06 at 16:38:56

that is a very nice way of shaping the bracing though.  it just flows into the (whatever the slanted thing is called).

At least you have someone doing them who looks to have a very good attention to detail.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 03/27/06 at 18:34:04

Yes. Nice mitreing of the braces.  A first rate job.  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 03/27/06 at 18:38:21

My mouth is as big as that box

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 03/27/06 at 19:38:45

I don't think I've ever been this green before.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 03/28/06 at 03:28:07

I am speechless!
Well maybe not!!  just close for a second..
I honestly have not seen any Imps looking that good and not even finished. The workmanship is incredible from what I have seen thus far.

Matter of fact they look finished and they are not, if that makes sense.
I would not have a problem waiting on those SO's with work that nice.. Kinda makes me feel embarassed to hold a wood working tool

You know a good gobby think coat of red barn paint would look great and cover up the faulty workmanship
;D

Awsome, just awsome  Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/28/06 at 08:00:31

Randy tell Mike, good job. You and Mike should take a bow. Tell Mike that I like his Dewalt table saw too. They are very good, we have one for site work and its very accurate. Sorry if my schedule was a bit harsh, I was just trying to get them done for you :D

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Gary_H. on 03/28/06 at 21:59:56

Randy,

And another "Good job" for me.

I know I must have missed something here. I just don't get the "6 of 6" number of boxes. I thought you just need to build a "pair".

Confused as usual  ???

Thanks, Gary

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Hotsauce on 03/28/06 at 23:22:38

The fit up of those parts looks first rate.  

The stripe of the plywood veneer is very nice too, it should look outstanding once the finish is applied.

John C.


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/29/06 at 00:12:46


Gary_H. wrote on 03/28/06 at 21:59:56:
Randy,

And another "Good job" for me.

I know I must have missed something here. I just don't get the "6 of 6" number of boxes. I thought you just need to build a "pair".

Confused as usual  ???

Thanks, Gary


Howdy Gary,

The "six of six, etc." was a reference to the number of photos that I posted from the last group that Mike gave me.

I'll bet you could really kill some mice with six Imperials ..... ???

Sorry for the confusion ..... my brain doesn't always work along the same path that everyone else's does ..... :)

Best wishes,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 03/29/06 at 00:31:09

SIX OF SIX!

... to say the least the anticipation is BULGING ...

Randy, I was hoping Gary was right and my set would be ready for pick up next week end.
:D :D :D
Just kidding of course. As envious of the Imperial project as I am, I'm even more envious of having the room for 2 extra refrigerator sized cabinets in my listening room. Mike is certainly doing a fine job. 2 thumbs way up!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/29/06 at 05:35:13

Hmmmmm... six of six, maybe I should have ammended my schedule for Randy and Mike. ;D

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 03/29/06 at 18:17:11


DirtDawg wrote on 03/29/06 at 00:31:09:
I am envious of having the room for 2 extra refrigerator sized cabinets in my listening room.

Two refrigerators isn't bad either.  One is for Beer, the other is for the makin's of sausage sandwiches.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 03/31/06 at 21:36:02

Well ..... tomorrow is Saturday ..... again ..... :)

I will be going to Mike's with cattle prod in hand ..... :-[

We really need to get something done tomorrow, because Mike will be out of town next weekend.

Realistically, the completion date is still probably three weeks or so away, since Mike is somewhat of a fanatic about the staining process ..... something about "75 coats and sanding between each application" ..... ???

The good news is that I ordered the drivers today ..... :D

I'm pretty sure that there will be some new photos to share by Monday.

Everyone have a great weekend,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 03/31/06 at 22:12:06

Look forward to seeing these creations all done.

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 04/01/06 at 07:11:47

Hi Randy,  Which drivers did you choose?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 04/01/06 at 16:49:53

Hope they are designated ones after all it is the weekend :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/01/06 at 17:48:09


Brian wrote on 04/01/06 at 07:11:47:
Hi Randy,  Which drivers did you choose?


Hi Brian,

We will be using the same ones that Zygi used to build Tim's (change_out) SO Imperials.

They are the Dayton ST385-8 15" Series II Woofers.



We really don't need them yet.  Mike has the dimension needed to cut the mounting hole for the drivers ..... but, I will at least be able to look at them and dream of the glorious future soon to come ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 04/02/06 at 00:56:29

Hey Randy,

In that you are going to have the new drivers on hand prior to actually needing them, have you given any thought to maybe doing some sort of breakin on em?

Just a thought.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 04/02/06 at 02:40:19


paulc wrote on 04/02/06 at 00:56:29:
Hey Randy,

In that you are going to have the new drivers on hand prior to actually needing them, have you given any thought to maybe doing some sort of breakin on em?

Just a thought.


Huh... Do drivers need breaking in.???  :-*  :'(  ;D

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/03/06 at 14:14:19


paulc wrote on 04/02/06 at 00:56:29:
Hey Randy,

In that you are going to have the new drivers on hand prior to actually needing them, have you given any thought to maybe doing some sort of breakin on em?

Just a thought.


That thought occurred to me ..... :)

I guess I could hook them up to a receiver and run them out of phase while I'm at work.  It will probably take a LONG time to break them in with 1.6 watts per channel ..... ???

This was not the best of weekends .....

I was on my way to Mike's house Saturday and my boss called me on my cell phone to inform me that he could not access one of our file servers from his home through Terminal Services.  I stopped at the office and the server was laying on its back with its tongue hanging out ..... :'(

The repair took a few hours and ruined my trip to Mike's place ..... :(

I talked to Mike this morning and he said that some good progress was made without me.  I'm not sure what he meant by that ..... :-/

Unfortunately, he did not take any photos.  He has promised to take a few when he gets home and bring them in tomorrow for posting .....

Murphy is alive and well .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 04/03/06 at 14:47:26


Caintuck Randy wrote on 04/03/06 at 14:14:19:
Murphy is alive and well .....

Randy

... everything that can go wrong, will ... ?

Murphy was an optimist, looking through rose colored glasses, living in a fantasy paradise dreamland.

He doesn't even begin to consider all the things that CAN'T go wrong!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 04/03/06 at 18:55:01

All is well.  They will be musical when they are finished.  That is what matters.   :)
Say: "Auumm"

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/04/06 at 13:35:40

Photo Time ..... :)

One of four .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/04/06 at 13:38:37

Two of four .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/04/06 at 13:43:04

Three of four .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/04/06 at 13:46:15

Four of four .....



Enjoy ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 04/04/06 at 14:19:28

With all due respect, looks like he is doing just fine without you.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Caintuck Randy on 04/04/06 at 15:07:03

Man ..... that hurts .....


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 04/05/06 at 06:41:10

Hey Randy, are you making four SO's  :)  :-/  :'(

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 04/05/06 at 08:00:56

To say the least, the envy is building :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 04/05/06 at 08:04:03

No Rap, its the SO that is building.  ;D  :D  ;)

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 04/05/06 at 15:14:42

* Groan * ::)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Braggi on 04/06/06 at 04:01:06

These are being built with such loving care!

You chose quite a craftsman, Randy. I hope he has some slight understanding what he's doing to us.  

Does he understand orders could be pouring in from around the globe and he might have to quit his day job?

Thanks for the updates.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/06/06 at 13:55:03


Braggi wrote on 04/06/06 at 04:01:06:
These are being built with such loving care!

You chose quite a craftsman, Randy. I hope he has some slight understanding what he's doing to us.  

Does he understand orders could be pouring in from around the globe and he might have to quit his day job?

Thanks for the updates.


Hi Braggi,

After reading your post ..... Mike is blushing .....

I have had several forum posters ask about a "Mini Caintuck Fest" after the SO Imperials are finished and in my room.  Since my new home and room don't lend themselves to a larger get together like the old ones did, I'm thinking that this might be a good idea ..... several small get togethers of 4 to 6 people ..... ???

Mike could attend each one with his order pad in hand ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:16:22

Well .... I misunderstood Mike.  I thought he was going on vacation this weekend ..... it's next weekend.  So, I invited myself to his wood shop to help him out with my vast knowledge of woodworking ..... ::)

We had a blast and got a bit closer to the finish line .....

Here is a photo of Mike in his Darth Vader getup .....

http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040820.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

More to follow.

Enjoy,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:20:53


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040802.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:23:41


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040803.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:26:16


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040804.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:34:06


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040805.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:36:10


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040806.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:41:19


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040807.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:48:10


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040808.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:51:00


http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040809.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 03:56:40

http://home.fuse.net/randyr/Imperial_040810.jpg" alt="" border="0" />


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 04:10:33





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 04:14:38





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 04:24:00





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 04:26:37





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 04:36:03





That's all for now .....

Sorry about the large number of photos, but it will be two weeks before my next visit ..... :(

It was very difficult to leave the shop.  I thought about asking Mike if he needed a "house sitter".  I could throw a pillow and blanket inside one of the Imperial cabinets and wait there until he returns from vacation ..... ???

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 04/09/06 at 18:51:57

Randy, when will you be applying the finish?

Just wondering because some areas are going to be virtually inaccessible once you install the compression chamber.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/09/06 at 20:08:31

Howdy bassboy,

I'm leaving that decision up to Mike .....

He has been building custom furniture for many years and plans everything out well in advance.

However, I know he is following this thread and will appreciate your input ..... :)

Thanks for the heads up,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by dank on 04/10/06 at 12:47:39

Randy

Thanks again for all the pictures, and keep them coming!  There never seem to be enough pictures when you are trying to figure out that one obscure detail you just can't seem to understand.  Be sure to get some good ones of the front panel and how it fits and attaches to the compression chamber.  I'm hoping all your pictures will lead me to what I did wrong with my SO.

DanK

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 04/15/06 at 14:20:39

Guessing that this being a holiday weekend, we will not get our usual "fix" with this project.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/15/06 at 19:18:27

Unfortunately, this is the weekend that Mike is on vacation ..... :(

I will see him at work Monday and do my best to make him feel bad that the Imperials are not finished ..... :)

The up side is that we are a lot closer than we were a month ago ..... ???

Take care,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rap on 04/15/06 at 22:20:41

Well at least it´s not a month of sundays, Randy :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 04/23/06 at 18:29:27

OK, this is no holiday weekend, darn vacation should be over.

We (well, me) demand prograss :D :D :D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 04:17:45

Howdy paulc,

Your demand has been duly noted ..... and acted on ..... :)

I was at Mike's workshop Saturday from about 2:00 PM until midnight.  A lot was accomplished.  All that remains is to install the braces and "fins" in the lower part of the enclosures, some trim pieces, mounting the drivers and binding posts (Cardas copper) and the staining (or whatever it is that Mike has planned for the finish) ..... ???

We took a good number of photos, but were too tired to upload them to my website.  Mike is supposed to bring the camera to work tomorrow (Monday) and I will get the photos on the forum.

It's hard to believe how bulky and hard to move these things are at this point of construction ..... and heavy.  We were moving one of the cabinets after the driver enclosure was mounted.  It was positioned with the heavy side pointing upwards.  We both had a grip on it ..... and Mike decided to let go to reach for something.  It caught me off guard and my eyeballs nearly hit the back side of my eyeglasses ..... ::)

It was painful to leave the shop with the Imperials this close to being functional.  Mike plans to work on them some more this week.  I'm not sure if they will be completed by this coming weekend .... if not, I'll be at the HornFest May 5-7, so it still might be the second week of May before they are in my listening room.

It has been said that patience is a virtue ...... :-/

Photos to follow .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 04/24/06 at 05:22:11

Don't rush the details.  You will probably spend a good part of the day, every day, for the rest of your life looking at these things.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 12:59:38


Good advice ..... :)


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:07:19

OK ..... here come the photos .....

There are about 20 new ones that I will post over the next few hours ..... enjoy ..... :)




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:10:50






Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:19:46





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:24:53





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:32:31





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:35:25





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:41:06





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:43:49





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:49:54

The next couple of photos clearly show that the "football" cutout allows the baffle to clear the driver ..... ???




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 14:57:19





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by selmerdave on 04/24/06 at 14:59:01

All I can say is, I'm *VERY* impressed if you can wait for the finishing!

Dave

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 15:02:25





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 15:09:24

This photo reminded me of Michelangelo's painting of the "finger of God" .....

Considering the majesty of the Imperials ..... I was amused by the thought ..... ???




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 16:40:33





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 16:44:40





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 16:48:23





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 16:54:53





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 16:57:36







Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 17:13:58

I received a pleasant surprise this morning.  Mike worked on the Imperials for a while on Sunday and got the lower brace and "fins" installed ..... :)

Enjoy .....




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 17:23:45





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 17:29:30

And last ..... but not least .....



The next photo session will probably be the last, as I hope to have them in my listening room at that time ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 04/24/06 at 17:34:42

If you notice, four pictures up, you can see little spots on the picture.  Those are my tears!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/24/06 at 17:41:00

I know the feeling ..... I shed a few myself Saturday night as I went home and left the Imperials in Mike's workshop ..... :)


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Young_SC on 04/25/06 at 11:17:56

Sorry, just have to get a mop to wipe my drool................




OK, I'm back.  



Randy, I and I'm sure anyone who may plan to make these - would like to know how the hole including the football cut was acheived?

Thanks,

Simon

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/25/06 at 13:18:08

Hi Simon,

On the grayscale plans that Steve sent us, there are some reference numbers for the outside dimensions of the two cutouts.  Mike used those dimensions to make a rough "graph" on a wood template and drew the lines for the one side by hand.  We cut out that half of it and then flipped it over and traced the line for the other half so that both sides would be identical.

Mike cut out the first one with a jigsaw and then clamped it to the copies, made the rough cuts with the jigsaw and then the finished cuts with a precision router bit ..... it was neat to watch .....

Zygi probably had a different method for doing this ..... and Mike thinks that Zygi's looks a little better.  Of course, Mike is never satisfied with anything and I had to repeatedly tell him that I thought his version looked just wonderful ..... :)

If you're out there Bob, could you shed some light on this ..... ?

Regards,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Adrian D. on 04/25/06 at 14:04:39

pics are better than a million words. they sure explained the football shape i didn't understand in the sneak preview of the plans.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/25/06 at 14:09:26

Yep ..... I hate to admit to being such a dummy, but I could not wrap my brain around it until I actually saw it in front of me ..... :-[

When it's sitting in front of you, it makes perfect sense ..... ???

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Zygi on 04/25/06 at 14:43:09

Randy,

  I'm out here, I've been following yours and Mike's progress everyday. Lets just say your going to have one fine set of Imperial SO's when you all are finished. Mike's doing a fantastic job by any woodworkers standards!!!!

 My method might have been just a little bit of a variant from Mike's method, yet essentially the same. The jigsaw/pattern cutting method works well for all kinds of irregular shapes and you can get multiple pieces all exactly the same.  What I did was take and make a circle with an 1/8" larger radius then the out side dia. of the driver. I then layed out the football shaped cut out on a piece of scrape as well as on the finial piece. I then take the piece I cut with the 1/8" larger radius cut it down so it will lay on my lines and pin nail the pieces on the scrape piece of wood and flush trimed them to shape. You've now made a template for the football. Place the template on the actual piece, trace the lines, jigsaw all the excess material away, clamp the template in place and flush trim the rest of the material away.  From there out I use the actual piece to trace the lines and use it as the template for flush triming the rest of the pieces.  

 You can use the same method for straight cuts with lots of angles, such as the driver cabinet on the Imperials. It is also the inside flare of the horn and there are no 90 degree angles  anywhere. Just lay out the lines as per the drawing. Jigsaw outside the lines (I don't like to leave more than an 1/8" outside the line) pin nail a 3" wide straight board right on the lines and flush trim right to the line. When you have it all flush trimmed you have a perfect pattern and can make all the rest with exacting percision.

When you have inside angles meeting each other, you will have the radius of the flush trim bit left in the inside corners. You can either saw/file/sand  to the line, or use a roundover bit and round the edges of the wood to match the pattern, the latter is my preferred method. On the Imp's this is not necessary, as the inside cutouts are just for driver clearance.

 Hope this helps,
    BobZ

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Zygi on 04/25/06 at 14:48:54

Adrian,

  The football shaped cut out is for driver clearance. The start of the flare of the horn is about and inch or so above the football cutout.

  BobZ

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Adrian D. on 04/25/06 at 15:20:54

only clearence then...
thanks Bob
randy's patient man if he can wait any longer...
i wonder how many hours he will spend on his first listening 'session' ?  ???

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/25/06 at 15:36:41


Adrian D. wrote on 04/25/06 at 15:20:54:
i wonder how many hours he will spend on his first listening 'session' ?  ???


Hours ..... or days ? .....



Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by jj420 on 04/25/06 at 15:37:04

I bet they never get shut off after they are installed, i know i wouldnt...
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/25/06 at 15:41:08

I just ran across a quote from Steve Deckert in the DecFest 2005 report .....

"While this concept is still settling, I should mention that later that evening they were hooked up in the same fashion with the Parker Audio 2 ohm speakers bringing the impedance down to 1.2 ohms nominal.  The combo was then driven by a single SE84CS at 2.3 watts per channel and dropped everyone's jaw in the room - especially those who own an SE84CS.  The sound was larger then realistically imaginable and the bass was so low and defined you could feel the concrete moving - all from a 2 watt SET."

Yep ..... that's pretty much what I heard ..... and felt ..... :)

Randy



Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by change_out on 04/25/06 at 19:33:48

Randy,
Steve's quote is dead on. I can hardly wait for you to set up the Imperials because you are very good at articulating what you hear.

The fun is about to begin!

Tim

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/25/06 at 20:03:59

Howdy Tim,

I do believe you're right ..... :)

Mike mentioned something the other day that he thought was interesting ..... is there an uncanny resemblance between the slot on the SO Imperial and the Clone Trooper helmet from the Star Wars movie ..... ???



Is it possible that Steve had something to do with the production of Star Wars .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 04/26/06 at 02:17:40

Darth Deckert?  

Luke... It needs a crossover.  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:06:58

OK ..... 8 more photos before they get the finish ..... :)




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:13:16





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:17:56





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:25:27





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:32:34





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:36:58





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 19:49:57




Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/27/06 at 20:03:18





There they are.  I will post a few more photos after the drivers are installed and the finishing is done.

After that ..... you probably won't hear from me for a few days ..... :)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 04/28/06 at 06:02:26

Great job. and it only took 1 day, or was it 2 days, gee I dont know now.......... ;)
Mike well done, and Randy no doubt you were a worthy 2IC.
Thanks for the pics.

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 04/28/06 at 14:45:38


Mr Content wrote on 04/28/06 at 06:02:26:
Mike well done, and Randy no doubt you were a worthy 2IC.

Mr C


Yes ..... Mike said that I did a fine job of handing him the tools ..... :)

Regards,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 04/28/06 at 15:42:00

Hey,  what about the coffee?  :)  ;D

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by paulc on 04/28/06 at 22:08:00

I know the Lord said that I should not covet my neighbors wife but he didn't say anything about Imperials did he?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by 9anda1f on 04/29/06 at 04:17:39

OMG, Randy, they're awesome!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by John in CR on 04/29/06 at 06:52:35

They look great, but I see a problem.  Someone forgot to put the drivers in before attaching the front plate.  "Oh no Mr. Bill"......... ;)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by 60ndown on 04/29/06 at 15:27:50

yea they are well made, my 2 day imps wouldnt look like yours randy (but with the same drivers they might sound similar), mine would need bondo and paint for sure, looks to me like you can just leave yours the way they are ;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DaveCan on 04/29/06 at 17:31:41


paulc wrote on 04/28/06 at 22:08:00:
I know the Lord said that I should not covet my neighbors wife but he didn't say anything about Imperials did he?


 Yep he did   ;D  you shall not covet Randy's house,wife,male servant,female servant,his ox,donky nor anything that is Randy's..  :)

 Those are looking real nice Randy good job.  Dave :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/01/06 at 01:56:06

Well ..... they are done ..... :)

We hauled them to my listening room last night and forgot to bring Mike's camera ..... so, unfortunately, I am forced to share a couple of photos taken with my crappy digital camera that couldn't focus if my life depended on it ..... :-/

I will borrow Mike's camera and have a few proper photos in a day or two ..... ::)



Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/01/06 at 01:57:49





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/01/06 at 01:59:52





Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/01/06 at 02:03:20



My sincere apologies for the wretched photos ..... :P

The short version ..... the SO Imperials sound better than the photos look ..... ???

More in a few days about the sound .....

Randy


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 05/01/06 at 02:30:24

They are certainly wonderful beauties.  I am happy for you Randy.  ;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by selmerdave on 05/01/06 at 03:18:01

Yeah, Randy, the short version isn't going to cut it.  My jealousy is merely piqued and not entirely consuming me.  Okay, well maybe it is but I want to hear about it anyway.

Congrats.

Dave

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Doorman on 05/01/06 at 03:51:01

Those look Awesome! Oh, and did I say they're quite BIG!!
 More photo's and impressions, please!
                                                         Don

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 05/01/06 at 04:17:48


Randy in Caintuck wrote on 05/01/06 at 02:03:20:


My sincere apologies for the wretched photos ..... :P

Randy

Forget the camera, the pictures are beautiful! I'm sitting here looking up and down this page and sinning over and over, again. :)
Not really ..... I'm very happy for you, Randy. I can't imagine how they could be built any better or look any nicer. Hats off (and thrown in the air) for Sir Mike!

Just like Dave, I gotta know. You will need weeks for the break-in and we all realize this, but the first watt question is just hangin' there. Please, throw us a bone!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by 60ndown on 05/01/06 at 06:04:16

dont ya wana toe em in a bit?

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Chris K on 05/01/06 at 10:14:44

Bass frequencies need no toe in 60.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Lon on 05/01/06 at 10:23:32

Congrats Randy!  Beyouteeful!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 05/01/06 at 12:23:03


60ndown wrote on 05/01/06 at 06:04:16:
dont ya wana toe em in a bit?

Bass horns have only a slight directionality noticeable in free space or half space as an eggshaped high pressure area.  It is only an extremely close field phenomenon, but it makes close field use like monitoring in a studio setting, difficult.

At approx. the distance equal to the horn mouth circumference the effect is completely nullified and the horn will have the normal cardiod at mid bass to omnidirectional at the lowest bass dispersion pattern you would expect from any other low frequency radiator. In 1/4 or 1/8 space, however, there is so much reinforcement from the corners themselves, the low frequency horn's directionality is not noticeable, unless someone is listening about a foot from the mouth or something crazy like that. Those people usually go home pretty sick at the end of the night.

The only reason for turning the cabinets would be to try to increase the efficiency of the corner loading. The loading of corners might be increased by facing the Imperials into the corners at some angle, but I would try it straight ahead first, just for esthetic reasons. You might not need to "retune" the corners at all.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by 60ndown on 05/01/06 at 13:51:10

actually i have had great results with my subs 'faceing' the corner. give it a few weeks randy and then turn em 180 degrees....just to see ???

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by dank on 05/01/06 at 14:29:51


60ndown wrote on 05/01/06 at 13:51:10:
actually i have had great results with my subs 'faceing' the corner. give it a few weeks randy and then turn em 180 degrees....just to see ???


Randy
I agree with this statement from 60ndown, and would be curious if you get as good a results as I've gotten.  I'm seeing a 6 to 7 db increase in SPL by just turning one sub around so it fires into the corner.  This is without any power increase from the amp.

DanK

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Adrian D. on 05/01/06 at 14:36:29

but you loose the looks. that's the only bad part

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 05/01/06 at 15:44:59

As I mentioned before, playing with positioning can improve not only sensitivity but also frequency response.  I have a feeling that neither are going to be incredibly important to Randy, considering his taste in music and listening level.  I don't think his music goes really low and I don't think he's turning it up much.  I may be wrong...

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bassboy on 05/01/06 at 15:58:56

But then there is the possibility of room reflections bouncing off the wall and being forced through the horn, as the throat is open to the room.  I don't know what effect that would have, it would probably be small but maybe facing the SO into the corner might be bad.  Who knows.  Not me.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/01/06 at 21:55:23


DirtDawg wrote on 05/01/06 at 04:17:48:
Just like Dave, I gotta know. You will need weeks for the break-in and we all realize this, but the first watt question is just hangin' there. Please, throw us a bone!


Howdy DD and Dave,

Where to begin ..... ???

To start with, as bassboy accurately observes, I did not have these speakers built for the same reason that many music lovers would want them.  Most of the music I enjoy is fairly simple acoustic stuff ..... with the occasional electric blues thrown in for a change of pace.  

What caught my attention at the 2005 DecFest was the incredible air and sense of the recording space that the SO Imperials added to the performance.  Make no mistake, if there is serious bass content in the music, the SOs will make it known.  I have a copy of Toccata and Fugue in D minor that Mike and I played while he was at the house ..... and even with 2 watts a channel it was pretty impressive.

But, back to the reason I had them built .....

Stand up acoustic bass simply sounds like stand up acoustic bass ..... and other "fundamental" instruments sound as they should, as well.

I recently bought a CD from CD Baby titled Brother Red -
Kickin' It
and cut #12 is a song called "Tears".  It's a Hammond organ, guitar, drum kit and vocals.  While "Mr. Red" is not the most polished vocalist in the world, he has great enthusiasm ..... and the sound of this cut with the Imperials in the system is the closest thing to a live performance I have ever heard.  The Hammond is growly, the vocals wonderfully 3-D and the cymbals sound real.  I was already impressed at how this sounded through the Parker Audio Behemoths, but the addition of the Imperials gave the same presentation on steroids.  The instruments and vocals were the correct size, but the ambience of the recording space removed the walls of my listening room.  Everything had a greater sense of palpability, as well.  Just to be sure, I disconnected the Imperials and returned to the listening seat.  Truthfully, there are no words that can describe the difference.

Mike remarked that he was most impressed with the range of dynamics with the Imperials hooked up ..... the effortless contrast between soft and loud as compared to other audio systems that he has heard.  Anyone who is an Eva Cassidy fan knows how she can go from a whisper to a wail ..... and the system now allows an appreciation of this that was not there before the addition of the Imperials.

Another thing that I find so incredible is the effect these speakers have on very simple music that seems to have no bass content.  At the DecFest, I was introduced to the music of Israel Kamakawiwo'ole ..... a huge, (recently deceased) Hawaiian man who played the Ukulele and had a voice like a bird.  I purchased the album "Alone in IZ World" and have been enjoying it immensely.  With the Imperials, it takes on a whole new scale because of the added sense of the recorded space.

As time passes, I will probably experiment with different placement ..... but I am enjoying the music too much to mess with it for now.

I haven't gotten around to trying it with the plate amp hooked up to the Imperials yet.  I can imagine that it will be interesting ..... but, again, what I am getting now is everything I could have hoped for ..... :)

No doubt, as the drivers break in, the sound will get even better ..... but if it never does, I don't care.

This whole situation makes me wonder what the smallest room would be that could benefit from one or two of these incredible speakers.  If someone knows the answer to that question, there might be a lot of plywood purchased in the months ahead by the owners of Decware amplifiers .....

Randy


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Lon on 05/01/06 at 23:39:42

Randy, thanks for tantalizing us with some initial impressions.

I would want these for the same reason you do.  And I can imagine the great sound.  ENJOY!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DirtDawg on 05/02/06 at 00:32:05

Hey Randy,

What Lon said! Thanks, for the sneak preview.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 05/02/06 at 04:03:10


bassboy wrote on 05/01/06 at 15:58:56:
But then there is the possibility of room reflections bouncing off the wall and being forced through the horn, as the throat is open to the room.  I don't know what effect that would have, it would probably be small but maybe facing the SO into the corner might be bad.  Who knows.  Not me.


actually sympathetic resonance is one of the issues this design addresses.  The Decware implementation of the original Imperials had that issue in my smallish studio/garage to the point where I seldom had to actually hook an amplifier to them.  They would add bass to anything playing in the room.

In the S.O. design, the woofer is in a sealed box isolated from the horn flare.  Both the mouth and the throat of the horn are exposed to the room.  This greatly reduces the sympathetic effect and makes it possible to use in smaller rooms.


Sound that enters the mouth of the horn simply nulls itself as it travels to the throat and exists bacdk into the room.  No pressure build up. And I think you will find that the resonance of the woofer excited by the same wavefront that entered the mouth is partially out of phase with what sound makes it backwards out of the throat adding further nulling to wave.

The horn flare is difficult to exite unless pressure is evenly developed at a right angle across the throat.  The only thing that can do that is the woofer.  The "carlson" shapped slot works nothing like a carlson horn.   I designed this slot to pre load the driver and move pressure evenly towards the throat.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Steve Deckert on 05/02/06 at 04:25:14

BTW, Randy -

I've been enjoying your posts, especially the last one and pics of your new room.  I have to say that it is a real thrill designing cool audio gear when you can see the results repeated.  I'm very glad you like them.  I will have the plans available on the web site soon.

If we all take a big step back in time to when I first talked to you on the phone, can you imagine how crazy I would have sounded if I told you that 2 watts could drive a room full of speakers with a dynamic range and image exceeding - well almost everything...


I'm certain that if more people - people with no plans to buy more or different audio gear included - could hear this, their priorities would change on the spot.    And ironically while it may seem extreme I know people with speaker cables that cost more than this entire setup and regrettably their sound doesn't even come close.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by gexter on 05/02/06 at 13:30:10

I am sold! but then I always was..
thanks Randy for your faithful and informative thread,
This design has captured me from the day I heard about it.
Well the corner horn too. the two designs I will never have but always want.

wonderful pictures, I really don't care if a couple are a little fuzzy.
You have no idea how enjoyable of a thread you have made.  :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/02/06 at 15:31:38


Steve Deckert wrote on 05/02/06 at 04:25:14:
 I have to say that it is a real thrill designing cool audio gear when you can see the results repeated.  I'm very glad you like them.  I will have the plans available on the web site soon.


Steve,

I started this thread with these words .....

"Based on what I heard at the most recent DecFest, this will be the end of my audio journey ..... and I want to offer in advance my heartfelt gratitude to Steve Deckert and Bob (Zygi) for their help and inspiration in making these wonderful speakers available to the readers of this forum ....."

After hearing what these speakers have done for my system, I wish to repeat my gratitude.  I have to believe that anyone who can add the SO Imperials to their system will be thrilled with the results ..... :)

Best wishes,

Randy  


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by change_out on 05/02/06 at 17:38:15

I want to also say thank you to Steve and Bob. Seldom have I met such talented men who are so humble.

Yes, Steve my priorities changed on the spot from the moment I heard the Imperials. I did'nt want to audition any of the other gear, go to your room to hear your wonderful vinyl rig or really even do anything other than scheme out how to get a pair of these mighty speakers.

It was Friday night , at the fest, when Steve disconnected the plate amp from the Parker Crusader woofer and connected the Imperial to a single select. Randy was the first to his feet followed closely by myself. The output of sound was so enormous, not in volume but in width and depth, it was (as Randy describes) palpabale. All I could do was shake my head and change audio directions.

Many things can knock your socks off. Very few can suck the socks back on to your feet. The SO Imperials are most assuredly in the the later category!

Build them if you can or have them built-you will not be disappointed.

Tim


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by jj420 on 05/02/06 at 22:31:39

I lurked this whole thread, and didnt say a thing...

I am still speechless, they are beautiful.

Thanks for the insiders view

JJ

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by BIG_GEOFF on 05/03/06 at 02:38:58

I have to say, those SO's are looking pretty sweet.  Looking really nice and finish.  Makes me want a pair, or maybe just one.  THats where im stuck, i have one imperial, and i want another one, and the SO is just soo tempting.   What do you guys think?  Add another imperial to the lot so i can ditch the mono and go stereo with a pair or stay mono and go with a SO to spice things up on the lower end?  Space is an issue so i can only go with one or the other for now.

-Geoff

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rocket_Ronny on 05/03/06 at 02:51:16

While I am sure they sound awesome, the WAF on those is very loowwwwww.

Steve, if you could capture 90 percent of what the Imperials do in a box that is at least 1/8 as big, then you would have something very marketable.

Only the hard core with dedicated rooms, and wives who are very accomidating, will end up going with those monsters.

Randy, better buy some roses and give a kiss to the miss, because she is one looonnnnggggg suffering woman.

Rocket_not ready to push the marriage that far_Ronny

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by 60ndown on 05/03/06 at 02:59:56


Rocket_Ronny wrote on 05/03/06 at 02:51:16:
Steve, if you could capture 90 percent of what the Imperials do in a box that is at least 1/8 as big, then you would have something very marketable.


wo32 4tw ;D

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/03/06 at 14:48:38


Rocket_Ronny wrote on 05/03/06 at 02:51:16:
While I am sure they sound awesome, the WAF on those is very loowwwwww.

Only the hard core with dedicated rooms, and wives who are very accomidating, will end up going with those monsters.

Randy, better buy some roses and give a kiss to the miss, because she is one looonnnnggggg suffering woman.

Rocket_not ready to push the marriage that far_Ronny


Howdy Ron,

That is why I built a dedicated listening room in the basement ..... :)

Linda has the first and second floors of the house and I don't tell her how to decorate them ..... and I have my 16' x 26' space with the same courtesy from her.

She rarely comes into my lair and would rather be run over by a cement truck than sit and listen to music ..... ::)

However, my 24 year old daughter came over for a visit and a listening session and was duly impressed.  She thought that the room and the SO Imperials were "cool" ..... ???

That's my baby girl ..... ;)

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Chris K on 05/03/06 at 15:17:59

Randy,
You might as well just gear up for early retirement, cause how are you gonna get ANY work done with the sleep you're missing having those SO's in the basement?
I can see it now. Early/Late lunches, napping in your car, delegating IT duties to unqualified underlings, bribing co-workers to cover for you and others running interference for your boss. ???

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rocket_Ronny on 05/03/06 at 19:11:54

I would have loved to see your wife's response when you lugged those monsters in the house Randy.

Well honey, you see, I picked up a great deal on these and they do look nice, don't they?

Kind of like when a new amp came to the door and my wife asked what it was.

I said, an amp. She said, how much did THAT cost? I said $5,000.00 bucks. WHAATTTT !!!!! she screeched.

I said, I am only kidding honey, it was only $500.00. The new amp was a breeze after that.

Rocket_always outside the box_Ronny

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Brian on 05/04/06 at 02:05:36

Audiophiles must be the most sadly whipped group of hobbiests in the country!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Chris K on 05/04/06 at 03:10:06


Brian wrote on 05/04/06 at 02:05:36:
Audiophiles must be the most sadly whipped group of hobbiests in the country!

NOT ME! :-X

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by serenechaos on 05/04/06 at 20:51:38


Brian wrote on 05/04/06 at 02:05:36:
Audiophiles must be the most sadly whipped group of hobbiests in the country!

Me either!   ::)  

I don't know what anyone else’s wives’ response would be, but I'd love to surprise my wife with a pair of SOs!  
I'd bet she'd love 'em; she loves music, has a great ear, and keeps commenting on how the bass "isn't all there."  Even with volume (balance) adjusted too high on the subs, there is a "fullness" and a "feeling" missing...  

Major re-work on the listening room this weekend, then back to building a pair of corner horns, just wish I had room to augment them with a pair of SOs...  
Robert  :)  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by bnew63 on 05/05/06 at 01:15:58

I agree I always found if you bring in the big stuff first anything smaller is a breeze to get through the door.
               Brian

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Rocket_Ronny on 05/05/06 at 15:55:34

How's this for a WAF story. Well actually a date story.

I know a guy who brought home a nice woman on his Suzuki GSR bike. When she walked into his living room her mouth dropped.

Why, because she was beholding flagship Apogee Ribbons, 2 monster bass cabinates larger than the Imperials loaded with 20' Hartley sub woofers, Mark Levinson 33 mono blocks-you know the expensive ones, and a whole bunch else of audio nervana.

Needless to say he did not marry her.


Actually my wife is easy to get along with as well. She has put up with me having spent nearly $30,000.00 on audio in my lifespan, and another $60,000.00 on recording gear. We get along very well. Just no space for Imperials however.

Rocket_Ronny


Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by serenechaos on 05/05/06 at 19:48:09


Rocket_Ronny wrote on 05/05/06 at 15:55:34:
Needless to say he did not marry her.

Oh, she didn't like it?  
I was reading the above thinking she might be a music lover & fall in love (with the room, not the dude).   ::)  

I brought mine home to a couple harley's and an indian in the living room (in various states of running or not),
the other half the room filled w/ piano, synths, recording gear, pa, etc.  
She convinced me low-level playback mignt sound better not blowing through a 1400w pa...
I bought a little zen amp & built a pair of HDTs; she started talking to the tubes & telling me how they "sing differently because they have different personalities."  

I love my wife  ;D
Robert  :)  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by stone_of_tone on 05/08/06 at 21:03:32

Change Out wrote:
"It was Friday night , at the fest, when Steve disconnected the plate amp from the Parker Crusader woofer and connected the Imperial to a single select. Randy was the first to his feet followed closely by myself. The output of sound was so enormous, not in volume but in width and depth, it was (as Randy describes) palpabale. All I could do was shake my head and change audio directions".

My sediments exactly = I was there.... . The music has a place to go in Steve's words are so true. Steve and Ziggy are humble talented guys to say the least. That damn Zen Select does it all for me... . Congrats Randy, you dawg!!! Change Out=thanks again for the cool shirts at DecFest....and do you have any new pics...maybe I missed them.

Stone of Tone  :)
PS - I wish I had the room for them!  I wonder how small of a room you can put one (1) in? ....I did get wood base for my Select....she looks....goooood!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by DaveCan on 05/21/06 at 03:12:57

Hey Randy, just thought I'd check in and ask how life with the Imperials is going?  I wish I had some room for those, how are they sounding?  Dave :)

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 05/23/06 at 10:34:25

I too have enjoyed this thread. I was interested to read about the effect the SO had on the overall soundstage. It had me wondering about a fullrange imperial, and how big the soundstage would be with them ???

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/23/06 at 14:27:35

Howdy Dave and Mr C,

As you might expect, most of my time has been devoted to listening ..... :)

Since most of the music I like is not overly heavy in the bass department, Mr C's thoughts about the "overall soundstage" is what I am enjoying most about the SO Imperials ......

It is very easy to get accustomed to the acoustic envelope produced by these speakers.  When they are disconnected from the system, it becomes painfully obvious just how much they add to the overall presentation ..... ???

Of course, if there is any serious bass in the music ..... the SOs reveal it with authority and finesse.

I am steadily working my way through my music collection to see what the Imperials do for various disks and types of music.  So far, the most impressive thing (to me) is the authority added to a Hammond B3 ..... but, I guess that is to be expected ..... ;)

Over the next week or two, the plan is to pair the Imperials with The Horns to see how that combo works out ..... and to power the Imperials with the plate amp.  I am trying hard not to have any preconceptions, but it should be interesting to hear the various combinations.

Several forum readers have expressed interest in hearing the Imperials ..... and I have an open door policy for anyone who wishes to visit.  Just email me to let me know your plans.  I would also like to get a few folks together for a day or two on a weekend ..... does anyone have a suggestion as to a date ?

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Adrian D. on 05/23/06 at 15:05:00

i'd love to come over on june 24, saturday.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Adrian D. on 05/23/06 at 15:06:44

wait, i just remembered, i live in europe... it's too far. :( :(

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 05/23/06 at 15:37:07

Hi Adrian,

I have made some long audio road trips, but that would probably be out of my range as well .....

Of course, if you ever make it to the USA, the invitation is open ..... :)

Best wishes,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Adrian D. on 05/23/06 at 17:07:04

thanks . :)
i really want to visit someone on the forum if i ever make a trip to the US.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Mr Content on 05/23/06 at 18:02:03

Thanks for the info Randy. My next room is 16'w x24'l, so I am looking for sub upgrade ideas.  ???

Mr C

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by dank on 06/19/06 at 22:24:01

Randy

You try those Imperial SO's pointed into the corners yet?

Color me curious.

Dank

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 06/20/06 at 14:52:31

Howdy Dank,

Not yet .....

Between listening to a lot of music in my collection that hasn't been played in a long while, swapping the Parker Audio Behemoths and The Horns in and out of the system and listening with and without the plate amp hooked up to the Imperials I have been a wee bit busy ..... :)

The only problem I can imagine with your suggestion is "what if it really sounds great" ..... ???

I would find myself between a rock and a hard place in the "form vs function" situation ..... ::)

Curiosity is getting the best of me, though .....

Just to clarify ..... are the cabinets facing directly into the corners ?  How far out from the corners is optimal ?

Thanks,

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by dank on 06/21/06 at 16:25:40

Directly into the corner and close to the corner.  If you keep the Imperial front edges 6-12 inches away from the walls it should be a good starting place.  You should be able to tell as soon as you play some music.  Its also pretty forgiving in that I don't think there is one "perfect" spot that sounds better than all other spots.  I've done all my corner experiment work with just one sub source (one Imperial in your case) so I don't know how two will act.

DanK

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Lon on 07/20/06 at 13:00:11

Randy,

Any further impressions?  Any decidedly "best" combination of amps and speakers, etc?

Thanks!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 07/20/06 at 15:27:53

Hi Lon,

Good question ..... ???

First, I must shamefully admit that I have not yet tried Dank's suggestion of flipping the cabinets around and firing them into the corners.  As much lip service as I (and many others) pay to the concept of "it's only about the sound", I don't think I could look at the backs of the cabinets knowing how nice the front looks ..... :-[

Even so, I will still have to try it in the near future.

Concerning the different amplifier setups, I am torn between running all speakers from the Select and powering the Imperials from the plate amp.  The plate amp will produce more "grunt" ..... hands down.  Most of the folks who have visited me for a listening session are very impressed with the output from the Imperials with 100 watts pushing them ..... but being impressed and enjoying music on a daily basis are two different things, as you well know.  

As you might imagine, it's a totally different effect running the Imperials full range from the Select.  When you drive the Imperials with the plate amp, it's not feasible to run them full range because it muddies up the lower midrange ..... at least in my experience.  So ..... a crossover point has to be chosen on the plate amp to get a good blend between the main speakers and the Imperials.  I'm still playing with it, but somewhere between 50 and 70 hz seems to be a good point.

Another issue that I have run into is that my room has a "bass suckout" at the spot where my listening seat normally sits.  If I move around the room, some areas have a lot of bass energy but the normal listening position has nowhere near as much bass.  So, I have been moving my listening seat forward and backward and experimenting with the toe in of the main speakers to make it work.  I'm getting there ..... :)

I'm convinced that there is something positive to the full range parallel stereo setup ..... but the benefits are more obvious with some recordings than others.  As several people have mentioned that have heard the Imperials, the bass is only one aspect of the overall sound ..... the other is the ambience and sense of the recording space that is added.  In my experience, running the Imperials full range in parallel with the main speakers produces this effect to a greater degree.

My very best wishes to you and your wife,

Randy  

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Lon on 07/20/06 at 15:48:29

Thanks Randy for the update (and the best wishes).

The big attractant to the use of the Imperials for me would be just that "ambience and the sense of the recording space" that I'm sure they present so well. . . . That sort of depth of sound is the main reason I'm so in love with my Radials.  (Or maybe one of the main reasons, there are plenty!)

I'm betting that running them parallel with my Radials on the EL34 Monoblocks would have great sound!  Maybe one day (can't even concieve of that day yet, but hey stranger things happen!) I'll be able to get a taste.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by change_out on 07/21/06 at 15:02:09

I fully agree that the Imperials improve with more power and the best playback is with the speakers in parallel.

I bought the KT-88 prototype  that Steve had listed on e-bay.
This is an incredible amp. It has the grunt to run the SO's. With this extra power the stage is wider, deeper and life sized in height. The big Decware puts a death grip on the Imperials much like a ss amp will do, but with no losses any where.

I find the Parkers fronting the Imps to be the best combination of speakers with all of the Decware amps.

Tim

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Lon on 07/22/06 at 11:21:59

Congratulations Tim!  I somehow knew that would be a fine amp!

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by dank on 07/24/06 at 14:33:50

Randy

When you use the plate amp to power the Imperials, are you still running your mains full range?  The reason I ask is that my plate amp provides an output to the mains that has a 100 hz filter on it to keep the real low bass out of the mains when you are running a sub(s).  My impression is that this seems to add a lot to the overall sound quality by removing a lot of the work that the mains have to do.  I probably tend to run my stuff a LITTLE louder than you do, so perhaps this won't apply to you, but I was curious if you had observed anything similar.    

Dan

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Chris K on 07/24/06 at 15:59:48

Dank,
I'm going out on a limb here but knowing Randy the "mains" are always right off the tube amp and he'd likely never introduce anything between the amp's output posts and main speakers. But instead of answering for Randy, I can say for myself that while I understand the idea and purpose of limiting or cutting off lower bass and sub bass frequencies from the "mains" (100hz down?) and letting a sub take over I have issues with that "scheme".
At certain times I've had the mains cut out from 80hz down and the sub integrated well and everything was powerful and "seamless", but most often I've had the mains running full range and a sub hooked right to the amp/speaker posts so the same signal arrives at the sub, and several things happen here in this type of set-up. You either have cancellation of certain bands of bass and fair to poor integration speed wise with the mains, so you then set about to play around with the phase of the sub and position it so it integrates with the "mains" and loads the room with the mains and not "against" them. In the overlapping frequencies common to the mains and the sub you may get too much bass which is the opposite of cancellation. This can be very bad indeed and is likley due to the geometry of the hard boundaries of your room. If your lucky you can set up the system (sub and mains) in a different area of the room and this may dial it in for you. Or not! However when you get mains running full range in the right room and set up the sub to integrate with no (or very little) cancellations or additions in the bass and sub bass frequencies the synergy is (can be) astounding!!! There is a harmonic interplay between the mains and sub that is euphonic and expands the sound stage to much more realistic depth and width. This effect varies with certain recordings as Randy rightly points out, and different types of music are more suited to take advantage of the effect. Overall I'd say that cutting off the mains and integrating a sub smoothly at the crossover point is a lot easier and is a "tight" solution and sound clean and smooth but when you get the sub integrated right and "playing nice" with main stereo speakers running full range the result is worth it. The room and its dimentions and acoustic properties seem to be one of the major things to deal with and it can be tough with frequencies that create standing waves that are "room sized". Ask Randy what he heard at DecFest full range with the Imperials "in tow" and you know what is described begs to be heard. I've had glimpses here at home.

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 07/24/06 at 19:16:29

Howdy Dank, Chris,

My plate amp has a similar "satellite output" feature, but I have been afraid to try it considering the low cost of the unit and the questionable quality of the crossover components .....

Because of Lon's inquiry, I spent some time over the weekend doing comparisons between the plate amp and parallel setups to see if my original conclusions were still valid.

My thoughts about the variation between recordings held true ..... and the superiority of the parallel setup was jaw dropping in a few instances.  One very good example was the song "Oh Well" from Sara K's album "Hobo". This is a Chesky Records release and the recording is not your typical mass market studio fare.  With the Imperials in the parallel setup, the soundstage and accompanying ambience is huge and spacious, with a very natural flow of the decaying notes to the edge of the recorded space.  With the plate amp in the mix, there is more bass to be sure, but the presentation seems artificial and "contrived".  This is true of the entire frequency range ..... not just the bass ..... ???

Of course, it would be great to have more power while still retaining the subtleties and finesse of the parallel setup ..... and it sounds like Tim has his cake and is eating it too ..... :)

The only problem I can foresee is the impedance issue ..... not too many amplifiers are happy with the 1.6 ohm load of the Parker Audio Crusader / SO Imperial combo or the 2.67 ohm load of the Parker Audio Behemoth / SO Imperial combo.  An 8 ohm main speaker paralleled with the SO Imperial would present a 4 ohm load, which should work with most amplifiers.

The amp that Tim purchased must be able to drive a very low impedance ..... http://home.fuse.net/randyr/smiley_cool.gif" alt="" border="0" />

Maybe that could be Steve's next project ..... an amp with a bucketload of power that likes a < 2 ohm load .....

Randy

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by stone_of_tone on 07/25/06 at 13:58:36

Tim, you bought Steve's grunt amp....wow!  I just read your post above.  Did you post finished pictures of your room...or is it still in progress?

Stone of Tone

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by change_out on 07/27/06 at 04:07:48

Larry,
I have not posted any pictures in quite some time. The room is near finished. Paint and trim have been completed. I continue to build bass traps and play with positioning of the diffusers and traps.

I spend most of the time listening :). Hope to see you at this years fest.

Tim

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by stone_of_tone on 07/31/06 at 03:39:29

Listen first....finish as you go. Yes, see you at this years fest.

Stone of Tone

Title: Re: To say the least, the anticipation is building
Post by Randy in Caintuck on 08/10/06 at 18:50:29

Since the SO Imperials are mentioned specifically, it seems like a good idea to have a link in this thread to the thoughts of paulc in his recent visit to my listening room ..... ;)

Enjoy,

Randy

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