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SUPPORT FORUMS FOR DECWARE SPEAKERS >> HDT >> Finishing HDT's
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Message started by Jason_S on 01/24/06 at 03:32:40

Title: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 01/24/06 at 03:32:40

Varathane... wait... sand...  Varathane... wait... sand... Varathane...

Man, if I knew it was this much hassle I would have put the drivers in last week and listened with my eyes closed.  :-[
The suspense is getting to me.  AHH HA HA HA HA HA!

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Yoda on 01/24/06 at 04:22:11

I put my drivers in 1.25 years ago, and they are still raw MDF....

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by teepeeworks on 01/24/06 at 04:51:18

Jason,

Could be worse, could be:

HDT's: $2220 Canadian
Shipping: I forget exactly but several hundred
Taxes: $233

I guess our dollar is doing much better know, I bought mine near record lows.

Take care,

Corey  :)

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 01/24/06 at 05:18:07

I dunno Corey.  

Table Saw $700
Used Router, $50
Router Bit Set $100.
Another Router Bit $25
Yet another Router Bit $25
And yet another router bit set $60 (the expensive one because it was the only one in town)
Plans & Stuff $100
MDF $100
Drivers $500 (same exchange rate and taxes, welcome to Canada)
More materials $50.
Plywood for the exterior $45  (cause veneer was $200)
Passives $50
Phone calls $50
Going to walmart for Foam $100  ($6 for foam, $95 other crap while there)

I'm thinking ordering them ready made is Cheap.  That doesn't take into consideration the time to build them or the 2 years getting around to it either...

Jason


Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 01/24/06 at 20:08:01

Took me 2 weeks veneer and all cost about $1000 (don´t count tools I use anyway :)) The veneer (mahogany 2 foot wide) only cost 50$ while the acoustic foam cost me 150$ >:( for 9 square feet! Go figure

Would have cost about 6000$ !!!!! to import so it was a no brainier. Yoda get veneering! the HDT´s deserve to look good :)

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by teepeeworks on 01/24/06 at 21:09:29

Jason,

You forgot to add:

"And having all those tools around to build walls of diffusors, priceless!"

Take care,

Corey

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Chris K on 01/25/06 at 02:44:36

Building something really gives you a realistec point of view, yes?
IMHO building it yourself may or may not save you a few bucks but ultimately self-build is a labor of love and of wanting to say "I built it myself". Now designing a speaker, implementing the discovery, and then tweaking and testing to a high level of satisfaction (others as well as your own) now that must be a super "feeling".  ;D

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 01/25/06 at 06:13:05


teepeeworks wrote on 01/24/06 at 21:09:29:
Jason,

You forgot to add:

"And having all those tools around to build walls of diffusors, priceless!"

Take care,

Corey


They are on the list :)  Right after the Wo32

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 01/25/06 at 06:19:17


Chris K wrote on 01/25/06 at 02:44:36:
Building something really gives you a realistec point of view, yes?
IMHO building it yourself may or may not save you a few bucks but ultimately self-build is a labor of love and of wanting to say "I built it myself". Now designing a speaker, implementing the discovery, and then tweaking and testing to a high level of satisfaction (others as well as your own) now that must be a super "feeling".  ;D


Definately a good feeling.
I'm more into the automotive/metal side of things so the woodworking is a nice change.

I thought for a first speaker project, it would be good to go with a 'trusted' design.  You can learn a lot by working through someone elses design process.  I watched a friend of mine go through building a set of nice looking speakers that sounded really marginal.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/05/06 at 23:40:38

Well,  Got tired of finishing, decided they were good enough so I installed the foam, drivers and glued the passives in.

Who hoo!  Now I can start on something different, like a wo32.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/06/06 at 00:05:22

Don´t forget to give the HDT´s a listen :)

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/06/06 at 00:17:07

I have.
I hope they change -  DRASTICALLY.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/06/06 at 00:31:07

If you have a new Fostex in them don´t worry they will. Mine had me graiting my teeth and pulling hairs for the first week :(  :'( Now it just gets better and better  ??? were will it end :)

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by franksmith on 02/06/06 at 15:47:44

How long do you evaluate a good burn-in period ?

I'm about 200 hours on mine.

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/06/06 at 15:57:05

"Mo´betta makes it more better "200 hour´s is minimum IMHO I´d think 4-800 with them still getting everso slightly better even after 2000 hour´s But this is with the old fostex cone type

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Chris K on 02/06/06 at 18:32:19

Yep Rap!
ShOO You BE Daam Right! ;D
The FE206E needs "beau coup" break in before it gives up its anal retentive and agressive personality but when it happens it is very very noticable. So Jason and Frank don't worry it will get better. I'd say 500 plus hours is good but I suppose it is how hard you push them in the bass (excursion) for the duration of the break in. You can very much hurt these with over excursion but I was surprised at how far they could be pushed. Lot's of us at DecFest '03 said the Fostex drivers opened up after the first day but Steve confirmed that this driver got much better after the whole gig was over and he started to spend hours and hours of serious listening to it. That is of course the time he came up with the "socket" phase plug and other tweaks like damping material on the whole motor/basket assy.
Give em time! ;D

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Yoda on 02/07/06 at 04:22:10

I left mine on everyday while at work for weeks, months.  They definitely got better in phases.  There was the first week, then the first two months.  They stayed that way for a year and a half.  Then they changed yet again.  fuller sound each time. Everything since the first month was great and got better since then.   Don't overlook the felt on the 'phase plug' tweak...and tweaking your room...and the right tube recipe...

Cheers!

Matt


Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/09/06 at 02:11:10

I put the EX transformers back in the select tonight.  Absolutely, unquestionably a must do for a HDT/CS combo.  

For those of you following the EX hum thread, I can't say I noticed any more hum.  There is a bit of P/S noise at idle, but nothing you can hear once you get your head out of the speaker cone.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/09/06 at 15:19:13


Jason_S wrote on 02/09/06 at 02:11:10:
I put the EX transformers back in the select tonight.  Absolutely, unquestionably a must do for a HDT/CS combo.  

For those of you following the EX hum thread, I can't say I noticed any more hum.  There is a bit of P/S noise at idle, but nothing you can hear once you get your head out of the speaker cone.

J


I could be wrong (I often am) but I find a similar benefit from having the cs strapped, I think the speakers see the op/transformer as being twice the resistance than in normal mode and hence better suited to 8 ohm´s ???

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/09/06 at 15:45:51


Rap wrote on 02/09/06 at 15:19:13:
I could be wrong (I often am) but I find a similar benefit from having the cs strapped, I think the speakers see the op/transformer as being twice the resistance than in normal mode and hence better suited to 8 ohm´s ???


It makes sense.  You can't double power output without halfing a resistance/impedance somewhere.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/09/06 at 16:42:18


Jason_S wrote on 02/09/06 at 15:45:51:
It makes sense.  You can't double power output without halfing a resistance/impedance somewhere.

J


Ah yes I ment to say halfing impedace (see I told you I might be wrong :)) slip of the finger. Thanks Jason

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/09/06 at 23:33:53

:)  that wasn't meant as a correction.  

Following the same theory tho, you should be able to strap an EX modded amp as long the load it sees is 16ohms or more.  If you series 2 8 ohm drivers, I wonder if you could take advantage of the phasing shifts with having series drivers in something like an MTM.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/10/06 at 10:07:23

I thought that for a "true" MTM you´d have the impedance going the other way ??? like in the MG944. I think it would prove difficult to match a tweeter to the 16 ohm load with out using a XO ??? The slp would drop by 6 db in going from 4 ohm to 16 ohm for dual mid-woofers. Not a bad thing really as the benefits of reduction in current drive and distortion, and enhanced damping factor might more than out weigh the loss in spl. You should be able to drive the zen harder with less distortion and thus make up for some of the spl loss ??? This is an interesting project Jason ;D There would be some increase in bass handling but I think there might be some midrange loss :( Maybe DD or Chris could shed some light on this approach ???

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/10/06 at 15:05:23

It seems the design goal of some speakers is to create an 'artifical' ambiance by introducing a multipoint source, or a time delay of some sort.  We all know about time aligning tweeters etc.  Ziggy was explaing one of his designs where he uses 2 identical drivers, except one without the wizzer cone.  The thought I had from that, is what would happen if you purposely time delayed one of them.  The same concept here is to make a 'bad' thing work for you.
Might work well if your using a bipolar design.

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by DirtDawg on 02/10/06 at 15:53:13


Rap wrote on 02/10/06 at 10:07:23:
I thought that for a "true" MTM you´d have the impedance going the other way ??? like in the MG944. I think it would prove difficult to match a tweeter to the 16 ohm load with out using a XO ??? The slp would drop by 6 db in going from 4 ohm to 16 ohm for dual mid-woofers. Not a bad thing really as the benefits of reduction in current drive and distortion, and enhanced damping factor might more than out weigh the loss in spl. You should be able to drive the zen harder with less distortion and thus make up for some of the spl loss ??? This is an interesting project Jason ;D There would be some increase in bass handling but I think there might be some midrange loss :( Maybe DD or Chris could shed some light on this approach ???

The biggest problem with using a series connection in an MTM is the phase shift that occurs when you connect 2 drivers in series. One of the plus factors with the design is that the closely spaced mid/bass drivers on each side of the tweet help to control it's dispersion, forcing more of the hi freq energy into a wider pattern, 90 degrees from the "column" regardless of the tweet's unsupported pattern. The phase shift between the low drivers will cause a certain degree of smear to the hi freqs. Unfortunately, any lack of focus in the hi freqs is very noticeable.

I can't speak about Zen amps, but I would do whatever it takes to put all MTM drivers in parallel. If your amp can drive the impedance, you are much better off with that arrangement.

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/10/06 at 17:27:02

That´s what I thought ??? Parallel = 4 ohm for 2 8 ohm speakers. Thanks DD ;D That would meen that to get the phase right you would have to use a complex XO? So in theory a lot of the benefits of the Zen would be lost. Jason there is always line array instead  ???

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Jason_S on 02/12/06 at 23:48:26

Actually, what I was really thinking of, was some of the old 16 ohm drivers.  An Zen EX is obviously an excellent choice, but strapped Zen Ex's might work well too.

J

Title: Re: Finishing HDT's
Post by Rap on 02/13/06 at 00:30:48


Jason_S wrote on 02/12/06 at 23:48:26:
Actually, what I was really thinking of, was some of the old 16 ohm drivers.  An Zen EX is obviously an excellent choice, but strapped Zen Ex's might work well too.

J


I think it would ;D

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